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Sure. So, what's more beneficial to a man? Physical wholeness or spiritual wholeness?

Didn't realize it was a zero-sum proposition. Not saying you are suggesting that, NCSF, just sounded like a false dichotomy.

I think what F4F is getting at is that it is easy to roll piety into your daily activity when you pray for what you know you cannot change and say, "well, I did what I could". I know of only one person in my entire life who genuinely "did what they could". Otherwse, you'd probably vote for someone who moved closer to socialism. Christ wasn't a strong free market proponent with security for the company and nothing for the consumer.

Christ and others did heal and raise from the dead. G-d has used miracles to give the stamp of credibility to His prophets and His servents. This was meant to distinguish them from false prophets who claimed to be His representative.

so was written in a book by men in ancient times with little knowledge of the physical world around them. i just don't know why we today have to take it all on faith. can't we today get some of the same miracles as the same "stamp of credibility"?

Do miracles still happen today? I think so. Can we command or manipulate G-d to do them? No. Can we ask G-d for help? Sure.

not sure your point here. i'm not talking about the semantics regarding "asking" or "commanding", i'm just looking for some evidence that prayers are heard and possible answered by god. that is the point of prayer, right?

So, what's more beneficial to a man? Physical wholeness or spiritual wholeness?

i don't see why the two need to be separated. suffering is suffering.

Flesh is still pissed because his people murdered the Son of God.

Okay, I think the conversation is wandering a bit (socialism vs. free market).

Jules, as a Christian, I am called to serve my fellow men. I will do what I can within my means. The stuff beyond my means - I pray for. I don't look to make the world pain free because 1) it's unrealistic, 2) it's dangerous to assume you have more power than you do and 3) the physical world should not be my over-riding focus.

Isn't the physical world and your actions in it your audition for heaven?

If you want to determine "the point of prayer," you'll have to ask each person individually. For me, it's taking time to thank G-d for His blessings and to ask for strength to help others (for example).

i don't see why the two need to be separated. suffering is suffering.

One's permanent. I'll keep my eye on that ball. Don't ignore the other (still called to serve), but there's a clear difference in priorities in my book.

What The F! happened to the What The F! Thread?

Thread Nazi, where art thou? Why hath you forsaken us?

Isn't the physical world and your actions in it your audition for heaven?


I just think if we could learn to respect other's beliefs and opinions and shelve the snark, the world would be better off.

G-d's grace would/will save me. I don't think it's a matter of completing 100 good deeds to get a ticket stamped. Doesn't mean I won't do the deeds. Just means my motivation for the actions should be righteous.

Sounds reasonable.

Thread jack over.

I just think if we could learn to respect other's beliefs and opinions and shelve the snark, the world would be better off.

i'm not being snarky, i'm asking legitimate questions.

should copernicus have had "respect for other's beliefs" when the prevailing religious belief that the sun revolved around the earth was clearly irrational and incorrect?

or to use a more dramatic, contemporary example, when many muslims believe in the murder of infidels as their path to heaven?

should copernicus have had "respect for other's beliefs" when the prevailing religious belief that the sun revolved around the earth was clearly irrational and incorrect?

I think that situation illustrates the importance of keeping focus on His Word and less on worldly issues.

or to use a more dramatic, contemporary example, when many muslims believe in the murder of infidels as their path to heaven?

You'll have to discuss that with a Muslim. I can give you my opinion, but they're clearly going to be better informed about the particulars of their faith.

i'm asking legitimate questions.


I know you are. You're a little worked up, but that's why I've said I'm not sure a football forum is the best place to talk these things through. Clearly, being half in the bag at a bar 1 am is the best time for this (or, it seems, that's when it comes up).

The reason it's come up is because NEAG showed something of a crisis of conscience regarding the abused girl. I didn't want him to think he was alone in his feelings about the situation and I wanted to give my perspective on it. Otherwise, I don't think I would've commented.

I've said I'm not sure a football forum is the best place to talk these things through.

this is the concourse, baby, this is how we do...

since both sides have made their points, i'm happy to let it die now.

and, by the way, i'm not worked up at all.

F4F, had this discussion with numerous muslim colleagues. To a person, there is nothing that they are taught to that effect. Nothing in their scriptures tells them that from what they've explained and what I read.

There is a loud minority of disaffected, disenfranchised folks amongst the entire populace (1 billion or so) that have adopted illegitmate means to serve their delusional ends.

i get that, jules. my point was simply that we don't we shouldn't have to respect others beliefs without question just "because".

clearly, there is a world of difference between jihad and belief in prayer.

clearly, there is a world of difference between jihad and belief in prayer.


Christians have killed more in the name of religion than anybody

"worked up" was a poor choice of words.

Chalk it up to, "You know you're on a Philly sports board when...".

NEAG can throw grenades about crime, alternative sex, and politics and no one really blinks.

A guy says he prays for the world to be more respectful/spiritual and a two hour post-a-thon breaks out.

It is pretty funny if you were on the outside, looking in.

Good point, NCSF

"Christians have killed more in the name of religion than anybody"


Really? Or just another random douchebag statement by F_B?


Tell ya what, I'll take Stalin or Hitler and u can take the field. File them both under "Killing for HAVING Religion", which works in the same context of "In the name of".


Pol Pot waiting in the wings but unavailable for comment.

I think I'm actually interested in what NCSF is saying. Think the sentiment could easily reflect nobility in spirit, just confused as to why he prefers the free-market, everyman for himself form of politics. I'd think by the sentiments you've expressed that you would want to have a national health care system, a solid social welfare system, and generally be willing to contribute to the greater good than the personal interest. I realize I may not be recognizing the paradox and instead see it as an apparent contradiction.

I know I'm not Mother Theresa. I hate Reid, the Eagles FO, stupid home buyers, boot lickers/suck ups at work, cantankerous peeps who don't want to do the jobs they are paid to do etc.

I've also helped a good kid by paying her tuition wanting to see her get a real fair shake at an opportunity to get more out of life. Volunteered time (not out of court ordered community service) in soup kitchens, helped fund school activities for one of the poorer neighborhoods and tip well.

Not sure about what happens after my story's last chapter is written, but I can say I didn't bear anyone malice (cept for Reid's stubborness to be more malleable about his system).

Glenn, FB's point was that Christians kicked ass and took names for centuries. Not always in the name of religion, nonwithstanding the Crusades. Since then, the biggest example was Germany, US and Russia in WW2. France and England's brutal wars that robbed them of most of their youth in the 17/18th centuries. Native Americans....etc

Pol Pot was a professional wanker who will have his name seared into the Lists of Ignomy. Just read, "When the War was Over".

Tell ya what, I'll take Stalin or Hitler and u can take the field.

AND "THE FIELD" WINS IT IN A RUNAWAY! WHAT A RACE LADIES AND GENTLEMAN!





Thank you Jules. Sometimes I just don't have the energy to keep up with Glenn's stupidity sometimes.


Favorite "Christian" asskicker:

Vlad The Impaler
not for the sheer volume, but with the style and panache of an artist

Runner Up: The Spanish Inquisition

"worked up" was a poor choice of words.

ncsf, it was a good choice of words. i was just channeling our dear departed KB by denying it.

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