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I started working out again recently and I've been out of the supplement game since they banished ephedra (when everything starting sucking).

I was just curious if there are any general supplements you'd recommend and what you recommend them for.

Anything from weight cutting to mass building or vitamins to HGH.

I'm just curious what you clowns are using, what you swear by, and what was a complete waste.

...and I spelled supplements wrong in the thread title.

Awesome.

Stay away from niacin in higher quantities. I hate the side-effects.

I almost died using ephedra

Jesus is my supplement

Seriously, i would like to hear some info too.

I never used ephedra. Never needed the energy boost, and it was never proven to help with anything so it seemed wasteful

It scared the crap outta me, so I stopped using it. The danger comes from the fact that you get this "weightlifter's high" where you feel invincible and you go do sets with weight that before seemed out of reach.

My watershed moment occurred on the decline bench, sans spotter (sometimes I used spotters, but with ephedra again, that euphoria sets in and that day I didn't use one), with a heavy amount of weight directly over my head. After about 4th set, I felt myself losing consciousness halfway thru the rep and started thinking "I'm not gonna make it- shit."

Normally you can feel yourself tire progressively and you naturally ease back or spot every time, but for me the fall and crash from "Hercules to Hercule Poirot" was almost very expensive...

Yeah, see, I never need that extra boost, and I'm not training for the Olympics, so steadily increasing weight works for me

Just wait KB- when you get to the state pen you'll change your mind about "training for the Olympics" and your "Denise Austin training regimen"

I won't go there b/c my parents had the amount of kids they could afford and my parents didn't have 7 kids with different people.

As far as supplements go, I normally stick with Animal Pak from Universal. It's essentially just a bunch of vitamins, but if you watch what you're eating, you really don't need much more.
I can also attest to the fact that creatine will help you build muscle mass quickly (provided you drink water like a camel), but cycling off the stuff while maintaining muscle mass is a pain. In addition, I noticed some behavioral changes, as I guess you would notice with any kind of hormone.
I also have friends that swear by nitrous (the results were impressive), but I personally have issues putting anything in my body that hasn't seen common everyday use by the public for at least ten years.
If your goals are reasonable weight loss and/or muscle development (i.e. you're not planning on becoming a bodybuilder or a professional athlete), I'd simply stick with vitamins and a good diet, with appropriate protein intake at the right times.

"I won't go there b/c my parents had the amount of kids they could afford and my parents didn't have 7 kids with different people."

Whatever you say Animal

Just to correct, creatine is actually an acetic acid, not a hormone. I was talking with my ex while I was posting, so I think I just slipped, Freudian-style.

good point

No, you were sorta right actually in your assertion AZ- creatine use does increase testosterone levels- so in a roundabout way you were correct- It can affect behavior

Are you sure about that? I didn't think it increased testosterone for some reason

Thanks for the clarification, FB. In essence, your statement was what I was trying to get at the whole time.

BTW, it may be better to get Jules' take on this, as I am no physician (just an Army IT guy turned wannabe rabbi), but reasonable stimulation of testosterone levels is an expected and healthy side effect of strength exercise. Most routine lifters never experience the testosterone boost that they should, however, as many lifters neglect lifting legs, which contain the largest muscles in the body.

I'm not POSITIVE, as I'm still waiting on my PhD in the mail- but I thought I read some literature arguing this- I'm sure there is other stuff out there arguing the opposite point however. Something about testosterone being independent of creatine and levels increasing due to the exercise itself

I guess what that means is that if creatine allows you to work out for longer periods of time- and testorone levels increase relative to exercise- A indirectly affects C... or something to that effect

and testorone levels increase relative to exercise intensity

i guess coke increases testosterone too

You'd have to ask Pablo Escobar on that one

just seems like a pretty loose definition

Creatine doesn't produce testosterone chemically. However, it enables your workouts by pushing more water into your muscles, enabling you to recover faster. Hence, you can lift more weight for more reps. The increased workload results in increased testosterone production. I think FB was simply trying to explain why i may have experienced what I deemed to be 'behavioral changes.' In any event, the 700 level is now closed (it's 9:30 on a Friday night), so i'll try to be less confusing and more illuminating on Monday. Peace.

Im a HUGE proponent of supps.

Ahh , the glory days of Ephedrine...
Ive done the old ECA stack (Ephedrine, Asprin and Caffeine- all pure forms prior to hittin the gym- the rage in the late 90's) and LOVED that. I never experienced any ill side effects but understand why it was banned (E).

I truly love lifting, and have been at it again religiously since my back got better, which is about the past 14 mos.

I will try to tell you what companies you can trust, what you can bank on working and what you should expect to spend.

First, the 2 most CRUCIAL supps, as in- YOU MAY AS WELL NOT TAKE ANY IF YOU AINT TAKIN THESE- go the GNC route. Not only are they waaaaay more affordable, but they are proven to work in my own experience as well as any big name products of the same sort.

1) WHEY PROTEIN.
100% Whey Protein (Vanilla recommended)- $49.99 before 20% discount.
You MUST use this. 60 g's a day. 1 scoop = 20gs, take 1 prior to your lift, and then immediately afterwards- 40 more g's.
This helps getting BIG and LEAN at the same time. Whether your goal is size, or to get lean, you need Whey.

2) Creatine.
GNC- CREADRIVE. 29.99 before 20% discount. Get the FRUIT PUNCH version- this mixes well with your 40gs of Whey (Vanilla) after your lift and economizes time when youre in a hurry to get movin (I lift at 5am and then have to go to work) and tastes great!

Trust me, go w/ the GNC version, which combines their Creatine with a carb transport- gettin it to your muscles faster, into your system with a higher absorbtion rate and FAR lessens your shot at gettin the old "Creatine Kindey Stones".
If you drink 6 to 8 liters of Water a day, you'll never have to worry about it even if you use Creatine Monohydrate- but if you take the GNC version Im tellin you to buy, you'll be fine drinkin half that amnt.

Ok- so now I've addressed the big 2.

Next, Id recommend CLA. It comes in gel cap form, and I find it to be strangely necessary. Ive experimented and when i go a cycle or 2 without it (A cycle in Supp terms is 30 days or more) I notice a dif.
Now, you speciffically FD, do not strike me as a guy who may NEED CLA , but its effects will only bring about visable results to you all the faster.
Its a natural, healthy Fatty acid that is naturally present in foods that someone lookin to get into shape would normally avoid, ala CHEESE for example. Its proven to aid in fat loss. Not a fat burner, but a catalyst.

If you're on a strict budget, for you, i may wait on this one for a month or two.

Do i need to recommend a daily vitamin? Prolly not,but if you aint takin one- get on it.

OK, now to address the rest...


[[[[*******You didnt ask about food, so i'll just tell you quickly that you need to eat 6 to 8 times a day, every 2 to 2.5 hours, either in whole foods or a protein shake. When eatin whole foods- make sure your portions are small- a fist sized piece of meat (Chkn breast is best) & a fistfull of a brown carb (Brown rice, 1 slice wheat bread, fistfull of wheat pasta, 1/2 of a sweet potato) or you can get yourself a fat free yogurt cup.

generally, your pre-lift and post lift protein shakes count as 1 mean in the AM (if thats when you;ll work out) and try to not eat solid foods 3 hours before you turn in.********]]]]]


Testosterone.
Assumin you dont wanna roid up, there ARE ways to increase your level of testosterone naturally (BTW- Red meat ups this horomone level, go with 4 servings a wk of 93% lean hamburger or a lean cut of sirloin etc).

If you take an herbal supp called Tribulus Terrestris, (I do and like it) it will up your testosterone level quite a bit. DO NOT BUY ANY VERSION IN GNC...This you can get ONLINE and in my experience, a better product, for about 18 dollars plus shipping.
750 mgs before you lift and again before bed.
---------------------
Anabolic Enhancer.
Also, you'll wanna keep your body in an anabolic state all day long. You dont wanna go ANDRO route- but there are 2 products ive found that lead to big gains in the amnt of weight lifted in a short period.

1 is in a pill form and called Luekic. Its an anabolic support that keeps your body in an anabolic state (able to build/add muscle) perpetually durin your cycle.
Ive used it and it works, but it can be pricey. Usually you get 180 capsules for about 38 bucks, and you need to take like 3 to 4 capsules per day. Meh.

The powder form of something that does the same thing and I must say I LOVE since tryin it out is called HALO, by Muscletech. This craps creepy. Its expensive ($69.00 per 2.4 lb tub prior to the 20% off durin the 1st wk of the month) but man do I notice a dif. You may actually notice SLIGHT shortness of temper using this, but nothing severe enuff to discontinue use. It could also be my own coincidental experience. I take notes on EVERY wkt and every supp, and ive noted enuff times in the past 50 plus days that my gains have skyrocketed but the patience tends to be a tad less...in the interest of full disclosure..
-------------------------
Nitric Oxide Booster.
N.O.-XPLODE by BSN. (Go with the Fruit Punch)
It's not cheap, but there's a reason. It's $80.00 before the 20% discount at GNC for a 2.71lb tub.
Something I have REALLY gone around the horn with as far as brands go and feel VERY confident recommending is the worlds best Nitric Oxide booster. (you WILL need this to get all those supps your takin to your muscles faster, as well as Oxygen) increase your pump and vascularity, absoLUTELY give you a NOTICABLE STRENGTH INCREASE when lifting and stave off muscle fatigue and most of all, FOCUS.
A lot of people, myself included, never beleived that CONCENTRATION absolutely leads to bigger gains in the gym. But its true, and this freakn crap really has you zeroed in dude.

Let it be said that what Creatine was to the Lifting Movement in the 90's, N.O. Boosters are to the same movement in this decade. Every company realizes the merit in puttin a product out there and are trippin over themselves to get theirs out there.

Due mainly to cost, I tried Muscletechs equivalent (naNo Vapor), as well as their pill form call NANO X9.
Stay with the N.O.-XPLODE. Ive come back to it after experimentin for a few months and nothing compares. Just goin to have to eat the cost.

------------------
Of note:

Green Tea extract is nice.
Not only as a natural Fat burner, but as an energy booster- take it 2x in the AM (assumin each gel cap or liquid cap you take = 200 mgs).
and 1 after the mid morning meal (Assumin youre doin the 6 meal a day plan to really boost your metabolism) and then another 1 after the late afternoon meal.

Id start with this, go to GNC next wk when if you sign up (Assumin you arent already a member) you get an EXTRA 10 or 15% off I think for signing up, on top of the normal 20% off for all members durin the 1st wk of the month.

Get all or some of what i suggested above. We talk via e mail frequently,ask me any questions youd like. I love this stuff & love to talk about it w/ those who are interested. Good luck, there is NOTHIN better than measurin yourself in the gym vs. yourself of yesterday (Keep a wkt log) once all your opportunities are done for competitive athletics.

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