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a POW is a different entity - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

a POW is a different entity - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

Not anymore, which is why it's a bad judgement.

How can you justify giving access to US courts to the terrorists or people declared by the US government as "enemy combatant," but then turn around and refuse to give the same rights and courts to POWs . . . otherwise argued in the future court case as an "enemy combatant?"

I'd like to hear how Judge Dino can say that non-uniformed combatants have greater rights and access to US courts than foreign uniformed military members.

Present the case.

That whole "different entity" argument is dead now. Now, "enemy combatants" under US control/jurisdiction in any land, have more rights than POWs. It's simplay a matter of semantics to argue that a POW is an "enemy combatant" by another name and, therefore, entitled to GitMo rights.

What's to stop

1) future lawsuits to guarantee free legal representation (since they're now afforded access to our legal system)
2) future enemies from ditching uniforms and attacking from the populace (what' the benefit of remaining in uniform and getting less rights when captured?)

I'm saying they should have been treated as POWs in the first place. As I already said, Bush was trying to have his cake and eat it too.

So, you disagree with the Court's ruling?

NC, in your world,

What's to stop the government from locking ANYONE up and holding without charges indefinitely with no legal recourse?

What's to stop the government from locking ANYONE up and holding without charges indefinitely with no legal recourse?

Ever hear of the X-men?

So, you disagree with the Court's ruling?

WTF? Had they been treated as POWs there would have been no court case!

WTF? Had they been treated as POWs there would have been no court case!

Sounds about right, but that's not the world.

Do you think the court was wrong in over-extending rights to the enemy combatants? They went beyond "POW," right?

Did they go too far? Was it a bad ruling?

Just asking, since we've explored the issue further.

Your argument is flawed - POW has NOTHING to do with it. The court ruled on reality, not a hypothetical.

BUSH went to far - court called him on it. It's really that simple.

too far

Dino,
You keep bringing up Bush. I am discussing the court ruling.

You want to hate-on Bush. Fine. He blew it and should've given them POW rights.

That doesn't change the fact that the SCOTUS just gave rights well above POW rights to enemy combatants.

Do you have a problem with the SCOTUS giving US civil rights to enemy combatants?

Do you see the potential and likely problems with this when it will only take a few lawyers to say, "POWs deserve the same rights!"

Take Bush out of the equation and look at the SCOTUS ruling. Do you agree with what they did or did they go too far?

Your argument is flawed - POW has NOTHING to do with it.

It's just a matter of time, Dino.

You want to make a case that POWs (uniformed "enemy combatants who will be held on foreign soil under the jurisdiction of US troops) won't be effected by this ruling?

I'm all ears.

Do you have a problem with the SCOTUS giving US civil rights to enemy combatants?

The court had no choice. It is a fundamental belief in this country that one is innocent until proven guilty. A POW is not held as a "criminal." These guys are being held as criminals, without charges, without being allowed to see evidence, and without the right to have a defense counsel. That is a huge difference. You keep trying to compare apples to oranges.

Do you see the potential and likely problems with this when it will only take a few lawyers to say, "POWs deserve the same rights!"

No, I do not. The Geneva Convention applies to POW's, not US law.

You are looking for a boogyman that isn't there.

Take Bush out of the equation and look at the SCOTUS ruling. Do you agree with what they did or did they go too far?

I agree with what they did.

Dino,
They're being held as enemy combatants.

The lawsuit for POW rights will happen next war, though there may be more immediate repercussions and lawsuits.

The Court had a choice and they over-reached and just blew it.

I hate the expression, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

"Obama will not win working class white voters. It's that simple."



"I don't think he'll win, period."




You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your gods name
Im every person you need to be
Im the cult of personality
Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
Ive been everything you want to be
Im the cult of personality
Like mussolini and kennedy
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights, a nobel prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You dont have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
Im the smiling face on your t.v.
Im the cult of personality
I exploit you still you love me

I tell you one and one makes three
Im the cult of personality
Like joseph stalin and gandi
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

I'm pullin' for him, but I think he's fighting an uphill battle once the Republican machine gets their hooks into him.

They are just really good at this "election" stuff.

I hate the expression, but we'll have to agree to disagree.


Hate it too, but so be it.

I think the "apples to oranges" likely exists because we have no POWs at the current time. If we had them, I think it would be more apparent what today's ruling just did.

I just think you're hammering the "effect" (the court ruling) instead of the "cause" (the policy.)

The administration brought this upon us, not the court.

F-d, you have to admit- he's not like any other Presidential candidate... ever. Either you're right and Obama will get drug down into the slime with the Republican attack machine, or he will "shine His halo light and expose what previously was shadow" to the masses- triggering an newfound upheaval of the Spirit- which thru the strength of Obama, can part the Sea of Division and walk on the waters of the river Truth- cleansing all who place their faith in Him

The Truth will set you free

NCSF,

So, do all POWs and future POWs now have access to US courts? Or can you conceive of a way to say they only have the Geneva rights, but the terrorists at GitMo have US rights?

WTF?

First off, among the inmates are a few dozen juvenile "terrorists" who have become adults in Gitmo. The youngest was 13. Those released were often done under duress of their home nations (namely England). Third, shit or get off the can. If they are guilty of something, try them and fry them. What are you holding them for? Four, POW's already have an algorithm for their management established many moons ago to which the United States is a signatory and that agreement supersedes the legislative branch at this juncture. It NEVER needs to be revised by SCOTUS since there isn't a question of the appropriateness of the convention. You really are parsing hairs over very little. There are numerous international agreements and the rule of law which were totally ignored by this administration. Those actions are quite serious and definitely damaged the credibility of our country.

To simply lump everyone as a terrorist and be done with it is retarded. Each of those inmates does not carry the same threat level to the country and some of them may not be guilty. There are people who are dangerous people to the country and should be tried and punished. The ridiculous notion of holding them as enemy combatants was intended to circumvent the Geneva Conventions. That was clear. The illegality of the management of the inmates is also clear. Charge them for their criminal actions if they can be documented and punish them. If there are serious reservations, they should be repatriated to their home nations under some form of surveillance agreement with those nations. It is a travesty when China can point to OUR human rights records and tell us where to stick it when the UN and Amnesty International release their evaluations of nations for their human rights abuses.

Gitmo was/is a stain on the country's ideals and pride. Even McCain says that.

Well said, Dino. The courts had to clean up the mess created by the decisions of this admin.

NCSaintsFan

RE: 700 Level Presidential General Election



Reply



6/10/2008 12:47 PM





You guys here this one?

Obama's never released his birth certificate.

Color me shocked - it's not true.


Yo, click it

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