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flesh, it had nothing to do with that and everything to do with his actions after Vietnam.

so BMA, the republicans managed to make a man who fought in vietnan, then came home to take a stand against a terribly disasterous war, unpatriotic, while their candidate, an elitist, pampered, hard-partying, dim-witted punk, was the a true blue american.

i think you just proved my point.

Of course I am talking about Black Democrats you numskull. What do you think the 12% refers to? But what I mean by that is that the Dems fully play into that historical "fear" that's built into their allegiance.

Historically, the democratic party has done more for the black community (and it's not even remotely close). There's also a perception among them that the Republicans don't like poor black people.

They are right and wrong there...the Republicans don't like poor people, but poor black people are the only ones who notice.

I am not dancing around anything. Dems play the "fear or Republicans" card to African Americans as much if not more so that Repubs play the "Fear of Dems allowing the country to be attacked" do to their (perhaps smaller?) constituency that actually will buy into that.


I did not vote for Bush in 2004 cause I thought he would protect the country better, I (obviously) voted for him to piss some people off around here and maintain my standing as one of the Lone Conservatives.

"so BMA, the republicans managed to make a man who fought in vietnan, then came home to take a stand against a terribly disasterous war, unpatriotic, while their candidate, an elitist, pampered, hard-partying, dim-witted punk, was the a true blue american."



Honestly, f4f, how many people's opinion and corresponding vote do you really think that whole thing changed?

No, I clarified your wrong initial point as to what the Swift Boaters went after.

I am not dancing around anything. Dems play the "fear or Republicans" card to African Americans as much if not more so that Repubs play the "Fear of Dems allowing the country to be attacked" do to their (perhaps smaller?) constituency that actually will buy into that.

One "fear" is legitimate and one isn't. That's the difference.

If you are a poor black person, who is going to take better care of you over the next 4 years: McCain or Obama?

It's not rocket science...the democratic party cares more about propping/lifting up poor people more than the Republican party. Poor black people are smart enough to know that and poor white people aren't.

There's also cicil rights, which is still pretty fresh in everyone's minds.

Glenn, Kerry was an uninspired zombie and he would have lost without the swiftboat attacks.

"If you are a poor black person, who is going to take better care of you over the next 4 years: McCain or Obama?"




Push. There are no winners here.

Curious, did any of you read the Swift Boat veterans book to read for yourself what they had to say?

f-d?

Dangit. I meant f4f at the end, not f-d.

Obama's 'Weatherman' Connection. BE AFRAID. BE VERY AFRAID.
link

Push. There are no winners here.

Come on!

No, I clarified your wrong initial point as to what the Swift Boaters went after.

oh, because you said it had everything to do with his actions AFTER vietnam. now your talking about the swiftboat liars (republican character assassination funded by billionare right winger sam fox)who went after kerry's actions DURING veitnam.

you're kind of all over the place.

Curious, did any of you read the Swift Boat veterans book to read for yourself what they had to say?

ntf. yeah, it's next on my list.

"Come on!'



I believe that, F-D.

f4f,
The Swift Boat vets were 200 or so vets that served with kerry, crossed party lines, and forced Kerry to correct memories that were "seared" into his memory while serving in Vietnam to align themselves with facts. They also asked him to account for his slander based on loose speculation and discredited testimony of alleged vets of the "Winter Soldiers."

Asking a politician to account for his actions is a bad thing? Or just bad when it suits you?

Dino,
This is the sticking point for me:

their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board.

Again, hanging you hat with an unrepentent terrorist. Not resigning. Not refusing to meet with him or refusing his money.

Believe me, I know Obama followers will never see the problem with it.

I believe that, F-D.

You can believe it, but I definitely don't.

Full disclosure on Ayers/Barry from that article at the bottom:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/26/why-is-obama-hiding-the-truth-about-william-ayers-follow-the-money/). A snip-it from the article reads:

"...In 1995, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge was created to raise funds to help reform the Chicago public schools. One of the architects of the Challenge was none other than Professor Bill Ayers. Ayers co-wrote the initial grant proposal and proudly lists himself on his own website as the co-founder of the Challenge.

And who did William Ayers, co-creator of the Challenge, help select as the new director of the board for this program? Barack Obama. Barack Obama was the first Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. This appointment came at a crucial time in Barack's life. He was on the verge of challenging longtime state Senator Alice Palmer for her job. When Barack decided to run, it is no surprise that he turned to William Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn for help in organizing the campaign and in hosting his first fundraiser in the district.

Obama served on the board for eight years until the Challenge ended in 2003. Bill Ayers was intimately involved in the Challenge over this same time period...."

NC -

But the Obama-Ayers link is a tenuous one. As Newsday pointed out, Clinton has her own, also tenuous, Weatherman connection. Her husband commuted the sentences of a couple of convicted Weather Underground members, Susan Rosenberg and Linda Sue Evans, shortly before leaving office in January 2001. Which is worse: pardoning a convicted terrorist or accepting a campaign contribution from a former Weatherman who was never convicted?

So I guess Clinton is worse than Obama? Give me a fucking break.

POLITICS OF DISTRACTION.

flesh, I was referring to the swiftboat ad that alleged Kerry threw his medals out.

So I guess Clinton is worse than Obama? Give me a - break.

POLITICS OF DISTRACTION.


Dino,
Can you point to where I said what Clinton did was right/okay/not as bad?

Or are you trying to distract people?

I actually am in for Obama. I hope his first act is to eliminate all foreign aid and arms sales to Israel.

I'm saying that NEITHER IS RELEVANT.

Argh.

The Swift Boat vets were 200 or so vets that served with kerry, crossed party lines, and forced Kerry to correct memories that were "seared" into his memory while serving in Vietnam to align themselves with facts. They also asked him to account for his slander based on loose speculation and discredited testimony of alleged vets of the "Winter Soldiers."

Asking a politician to account for his actions is a bad thing? Or just bad when it suits you?

gee, thanks for the summary. first of all, don't give me this "crossed party lines" baloney. it was a clearly orchestrated smear campaign by the right, with just as many veterans on the other side disputing what the "swift boaters" where saying.

and did you know that of those 200+ vets you mentioned, most did not serve with kerry, including several founding members of the group? and that several of these same members praised kerry's service prior to 2004?

"Among the first to question the first ad was Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, Vietnam veteran, and former POW. He said, "I condemn the [SBVT] ad. It is dishonest and dishonorable. I think it is very, very wrong".

so please, just stop.

Dino,
Both are relevent.

f4f,
There's a guy in Texas who put up a million bucks for Kerry to prove them wrong. He still has his money.

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