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The punt was a bad call. But it is about 4th on my list of what pissed me off behind the phantom illeagle contact, the bad play calls by the goal line and the penalty that took away the 4th and 10 they converted.

For sake of argument, let's play it forward. If the defense makes the stop, the Eagles get the ball back with just under a minute left at thier own 25 and have to go 45-50 yards in that amount of time. Unlikely. If they don't pun't and they don't convert 4th and 15 we have the same result.

Um, ... no. Not the same at all. If they (the Eagles), turn the ball over on possesion they give the ball to the Saints 5 yards out of the redzone. At that point the Saints are a mere chipshot from making it a six point game.

You can argue hypotheticals all day long. It's not going to change a thing. Kick the ball, ... defense needs to do it's job and get the ball back for the offense.

(ugh) (What's so complicated about this?)

Dean-o, you're just wrong. The Eagles were on the 39 yard line. If they go for it, gain ZERO yards, NO has the ball on the 39. That's a 56 yard field goal. WORST CASE, if the Eagles go for it and gain no yardage, they still have have a chance to get a 3 and out for a chance to win.

You play to WIN THE GAME. You can't play a "field position game" with less than 2 minutes and 2 timeouts. UGH.

Getting the ball back with about 40 seconds left and no timeouts and asking them to move down the field 40-50 yards is a tall order.

They weren't able to stop the Saints rush attack ALL GAME so why did he think he could do it all of a sudden with the game on the line and the defense tired as hell?

They had just converted a 4th and 10 that would have been good from 4th and 15. They had at least 5 pass plays over 20 yards that night. The Saints would have brought the house on 4th and long and you would have had man coverage on the receivers. You gotta at least give it a go.

It's not the reason they lost, but it was a poor decision based on what transpired for the first 58 minutes.

Exactly. Obviously not the reason they lost, but a retarded decision. When the pressure was on, Reid CHOKED. PERIOD.

It was a bad call by Reid.

You can look at it from any angle you want, but the main issues are:

1. The defense was getting trucked. There was absolutely no reason to assume they would get a stop. None.

2. What's the difference between 4th and 10 or 4th and 15? Reid obviously felt they were in 4 down territory at that point. 5 yards doesn't change that. I could see being in a situation with 4th and 1 that changed into a 4th and 6 with the penalty. That would be 2 different scenarios that could change the decision process. 4th and 10 is a longshot. 4th and 15 is a longshot. the extra 5 yards didn't make it significantly more difficult.

2. In order to punt that ball with so little time remaining, you are saying that you think the odds of the Saints won't be able to get a single first down on your defense and you think the odds of your defense completely shutting down the Saints offense at that point are better than your own offense completing a 15 yard pass.

How could anyone assume that at that point in time?

It was just a bad call and this isn't Monday morning QBing. It was bad at the time, it's a bad call now, and it's going to be a bad call next week.

2. In order to punt that ball with so little time remaining, you are saying that you think the odds of the Saints won't be able to get a single first down on your defense and you think the odds of your defense completely shutting down the Saints offense at that point are better than your own offense completing a 15 yard pass.

You also have to factor in the odds of you getting ball back with little time left and no timeouts and being able to set up a doable field goal attempt.

And you have to factor all that together in THREE SECONDS and make a decision. It came down to instinct and trust. His conservative instinct won over and he trusted Dawk and Trot to get the defense fired up to make a stop when it was obvious that the Saints were going to RUN THE BALL three times. Sorry, but if you know they're going to run three straight times at you and you can't stop them you lose the game.

Reid felt more comfortable with his defense on the field IN THOSE THREE SECONDS than he did asking Garcia to convert a 15-yard play. If it were McNabb, he absolutely would have made a different call.

Stop making excuses. Please. If you "trust your defense" that much then you go for it anyway.

And you have to factor all that together in THREE SECONDS and make a decision. It came down to instinct and trust.

What's your point? All coaches have to make split-second decisions. I guess you're saying he has poor instincts.

Hooray!

Look, you wanna blame the loss on a poor decision to punt? Go ahead. And if team management agrees with you, you'll be right back here next year crying about some other bad decision. THAT'S THE ONLY EXCUSE BEING MADE.

We don't have the players on this team to stop the run. Period. Had that defense stopped the leak at ANY point during that friggin game, we're not having this discussion. Coaches should be game managers. Reid mismanaged the game at a critical time and made a bad call. But that's not why we lost. At that point in the game he could do nothing but roll the dice one way or the other. He doesn't play MLB or DT.

We're in violent agreement so I'm not going to say anything else on this Dino. Feel free to get the last word in if you need to. See you in another thread.

Look, you wanna blame the loss on a poor decision to punt? Go ahead.

If you read back a handful of posts you will see that I said it's not the reason they lost the game.

And if you admit they don't have the players to stop the run, why are you giving them the ball back when you know they're going to run?

It makes no sense.

Oops, I thought you were talking to me. But Dino also said it's not why they lost.

Obviously not the reason they lost, but a retarded decision.

I guess I wasn;t clear enough.

Not the reason they lost but it cost them any remaining shot they had at winning.

Dean-o, you're just wrong.

There’s nothing to be right or wrong about. It’s my opinion. I based my opinion on the fact that the only scoring in the 4th qtr. was a FG by Philly. I also considered that the Eagles “D” did stop the Saints on the two previous series. Even the novice fan watching the game knew the Saints would run the ball for three straight plays in their final possession, running the clock and forcing Philly to burn it’s last two timeouts. Stop the run and get the ball back. Hey, … it is what it is.

Listen, I’ve read enough around here and heard enough of jaded Philly fans over the years to know that HAD the Eagles gone for it on 4th and 15 and not converted Eagle fans would have second guessed that as well and would have argued TO PUNT and give the defense a chance to get the ball back for the offense for one last drive. (Based on the facts that I mentioned above.)

Whatever, … enjoy throwing your head coach under the bus. They’re usually the first the lynch mob goes for anyway. Pretty predictable really.

"I also considered that the Eagles “D” did stop the Saints on the two previous series."

Are you high? On the previous series, the Saints got 3 first downs and ran off 5 minutes of clock before the Eagles D "stopped them" (they fumbled on a bad pitch.)

The series prior to that, the Eagles D "stopped them" for their only 3 and out of the half because the Saints inexplicably tried to throw 3 plays in a row. Not a big chance of that happening again with 1:50 left, was there?

Gimme a break. If they go for it and don't make it, the defense still has a chance to stop them. At least then the offense would have had a last shot. Punting in that situation is wrong, stupid, and inexcusable. I'm not "throwing the head coach under the bus," I'm calling him out for a really dumb mistake. If you can't see that giving the ball up when your only chance to win is to SCORE, then I can't help you.

"Listen, I’ve read enough around here and heard enough of jaded Philly fans over the years to know that HAD the Eagles gone for it on 4th and 15 and not converted Eagle fans would have second guessed that as well and would have argued TO PUNT and give the defense a chance to get the ball back for the offense for one last drive."

I can't let this go. Your premise assumes that if they PUNT, they "give the defense a chance to get the ball back for the offense for one last drive" but if they GO FOR IT AND FAIL they do NOT? WTF? If they go for it and fail, the Saints can automatically run the clock out? Either way, you're putting your defense on the field needing to make a stop. There is simply NO REASON TO PUNT IN THAT SITUATION. NONE. THERE IS NO UPSIDE.

There is no reason why someone should defend Reid's call here, unless that reason is "just to be an asshole"

Could be worse. How about San Diego?

Stop the Pats on 3rd and a mile and give up an automatic first down for a head butt?

How about knocking the ball down on 4th instead of intercepting it (way downfield from where they would have taken over on downs) and then fumbling it back to the Pats for the first down?


I know, this is an "I hate Andy" thread, but I'm just adding some perspective without coming to Andy's rescue (for the record, I also said they would never see the ball again if they punted).

Reid felt more comfortable with his defense on the field IN THOSE THREE SECONDS than he did asking Garcia to convert a 15-yard play. If it were McNabb, he absolutely would have made a different call.

And he ignored within those 3 seconds (which WEREN'T three seconds, BTW - it was around the 2:00 warning, before the penalty) what had been happening for the past 58 minutes.

The game wasn't lost solely on that play. But the defense had proven they couldn't get a stop unless NO stopped themselves, the drive that happened on that turnover was eerily reminiscient of what happened in October, and even after the Birds had been proving all night they could convert 3rd and longs, THEN you decide to give up?

Like I said, it wasn't the call that cost them the game. But good coaches find ways to win games like these, and this game was VERY winnable.

ANd as much as this team likes to compare itself with the Patriots, Belichek would shoot himself first before punting in that same situation.

For the record, I don't hate Andy. I just hate the decision to punt.

Andy Reid is the best coach the Eagles have had in my lifetime. He did a fantastic job this year. He learned to run a more balanced offense. He started getting Westbrook over 20 carries a game.

But he came up small Saturday. Besides the punt: Westbrook - only 16 touches? 13 carries? 2-1 pass to run ratio again? It feels like ground hog day.

Any time the defense stopped an opponent with at least a semi-decent offense this year I was pretty surprised. I'm not talking about a three-and-out, I'm talking about not giving up points and getting the ball back.

I can't remember feeling this way about an Eagles D in many years.

It's not even just the first 58 minutes of the game where it was obvious to tell they couldn't stop the Saints running game, it was basically the entire season as a whole. To think they could stop them when they were dead tired is not putting your team in the best position to win.

And again, even if they got the ball back, they had such little time to do anything with it.

For one play, I called it better than Andy. I yelled in pain when I saw the penalty. My gut said to run the same play, maybe flop it reversed like it is so easy to do in Madden. I was intoxicated and had my cousin's stunning best friend in front of me. I still wasn't distracted enough to know that the Eagles were not great at stopping the Saints. Who was actually happy about the call? I wanted to believe in Jeff Garcia and some boobies. Booooo.

Thanks for the good times anyway, Philadelphia Eagles! Better guess next time, Andy!

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