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F-d=not to mark out on you, but well f'n said, it is utterly outragous that we are having this discussion.

NEAG=you are the worst

i agree with you mlewis. neag is the worst eagle fan ever. he should give seminars on how to be so damn negative. one minute he likes mcnabb and the next he doesn't.

I agree with you mlewis. neag is the worst eagle fan ever. he should give seminars on how to be so damn negative.


With a name like "nosuperbowls", I can certainly see your point...

McNabb will win a Super Bowl. The only question is whether he will do it with an embarrassingly receded hairline flecked with gray, or whether he'll give up the fight and shave his head. He'll also have the mobility of a paraplegic turtle at this point. Then everybody will forget this conversation.

BRING ME

So what I hear folks saying is McNabb is Michael Vick-lite, or the bizzaro Vick, or something that encapsulates a more polished/consistent version of the talent that is, and what people love and hate about, Vick: Basically McNabb (4th and 26, the 15-second scramble against the Boys, playing on a broken ankle) is an athlete capable of making jaw dropping plays, but is maybe not the manager/steady influence he should be as QB. But with Vick you get flipping the birds, and weed and VD, whereas with Donnie you get black-on-black crime, corny jokes and puking.

Does that make sense?

Kudos to F-D for posting the thread since he is more on the homor/apologist (realist perhaps?) side, but still stirred the pot.

I tend to agree with MLewiskid in thinking that the Birds will take awhile (at least 3 season) to recover from losing McNabb even if they did get a #1 in a trade, and I think it is entirely plausible that McNabb was knocked woozy by all those vicious hits, puked, and then composed himself for the Greg Lewis TD pass.

And great point about Peter King F-D. I’ve noticed both King and Pasquerelli on ESPN seem to have a general dislike for McNabb (King even said so in an article this season when McNabb started so hot, saying that he had never been a big believer in McNabb the passer but said he could no longer deny he had arrived as a QB), yet they are more forgiving of lesser QBs. Eli Manning is a still redeemable QB with tons of talent according to King, but McNabb (after all his accomplishments, which while a mixed bad are still more good than bad by ANY measure) is basically a run-of-the mill, borderline career journeyman in these fools’ eyes. Some of this is the product of just having to find something to write about each week that will get fans talking. But to me, part of it is IMO an underlying sentiment by some of these writers that Rush was right about #5. That he’s been annointed as an all-pro, but while decent he doesn’t truly measure up.

To that I say he’s not an all-time great (and even if he does make the hall he’ll still rank behind a bunch of guys at the position) but he is one of the best (top 4 at worst) of his generation.

If he only puked once that would be one thing. But three strikes and you're out.

Jesus said, "Peter, you will deny me three time before the cock crows"

You could say the same about the crucified on and puking.

It is curious though, as Mlewis kid notes, that instead of responding to reasoned arguments with counter-points, you say: He's a puker.

I call foul . . . Neag up to his usual tricks.

Brady and the Patriots are classless, but that doesn't mean that he made scrubs like Jabbar Gaffney look pretty good. I haven't seen Supa 5 do that with a scrub before. Otherwise, Thrash would still have a job.

Anyway, McNabb reminds me of an improved Kordell Stewart. Kordell 1.2.

On another note, I've seen so many people rip Eli this year, but I don't remember what King said of him. Enuff pundits questioned if he was capable as a QB and could he "right himself". Well, eff Eli, Fassel and Coughlin. Bitches.

I hate the offseason.

Could be worse Jules, for Cardinals fans, it's always the offseason.

And going back to the Rush comments. I think he hit on something, but for the wrong reason. I believe many pundits were all over 5, but not because he was black. I think they were covering their own asses for saying his QB draft class was almost as good as '83. When all but 5 bombed out, they needed him to succeed.

That very well could be Fagel.

Brady and the Patriots are classless, but that doesn't mean that he made scrubs like Jabbar Gaffney look pretty good. I haven't seen Supa 5 do that with a scrub before. Otherwise, Thrash would still have a job.

You see some of the plays they were making for Brady? Long catch and runs, Gaffney's acrobatic TD catch...these guys are scrubs, but they played pretty well. I'm not taking anything away from Brady because Gaffney couldn't even beat our Greg Lewis or an undrafted rookie free agent on the Eagles, but they were making a few plays outta nowhere inthe playoffs.

Also, it's nice to know that even when I'm wrong...I'm right. I had a feeling Gaffeny was a better player than the way he looked for the Eagles and it turns out I was right (FRED!).

Far as McNabb goes, he played 6 playoff games with Thrash/Pinkston and they had 31 catches for 406 yards and 2 TDs in those games.

Not all that impressive, but the real trick is: Let's see Brady go to the playoffs in the next 3 years and win at least one super bowl, as we expected McNabb to do with his scrubs.

To make things interesting, I want to see him do it with his running game tied behind his back (in the interest of keeping things fair).

He's Eckel's article based on his WIP ranting yesterday...

Again, you've got to take everything with a grain of salt when it comes from certain guys and Eckel is one of them. To be frank, he's a liar. he makes up stories and push his agenda, which is punishing Andy Reid and the Eagles for firing his best inside sources and friend, for making a fool of him (Bentley), for getting him fired as the Eagles beat writer for the Trenton Times, etc.

He even wrote an article mid-season saying "The McNabb, Reid era is Over".

So, read, discuss, but never fail to understand he would make up every word of this to suit his agenda, so don't take it as gospel.

McNabb doubts Eagles future

PHILADELPHIA -- Over the next few months the Eagles will answer a question about their quarterback situation that will decide the look of the franchise for years to come.

The question is can Donovan McNabb and Jeff Garcia coexist, even for one more year?

Those close to both high-profile players aren't so sure.

McNabb, according to some people close to him, is not pleased with a lot that has happened since he tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee in a loss to Tennessee on Nov. 19.

The franchise quarterback's un happiness includes the fact head coach Andy Reid did not allow him to travel to the team's playoff game in New Orleans.

There is a team rule that players on injured reserve do not travel, but, c'mon, teams always treat their stars differently than they do the rest of the team. What would it have hurt to let McNabb go to the game, even if he had to sit in the owner's box with Jeffrey Lurie, if Reid did not want him on the sideline?

McNabb also may be getting a vibe that some in the organization prefer Garcia over him. Lastly he was not pleased with the way his mother, Wilma, has been portrayed by Eagles fans and the local media for her blog on his Web site in which she stated that watching the Eagles win without her son "is bittersweet."

Despite other reports, there was no hint from anyone close to him that the quarterback was not happy with the Eagles training staff over the rehabilitation of his torn ACL. McNabb also was not bothered as much as some think over Reid's decision to cancel McNabb's press conference that was scheduled last Friday.

It is to the point, however, that the Eagles have to answer soon what they are going to do about their quarterback situation.

It could be a moot point if Gar cia, an unrestricted free agent in March, is not re-signed. Until then someone, preferably Reid, needs to make it clear to the franchise quarterback that he is still the franchise quarterback.

Because if he is, but there is even a doubt in his mind that he isn't (and we're not reading minds here, just tea leaves), that's not good.

There are also rumors floating and growing stronger from around that league that Minnesota and Tampa Bay could be landing spots in either a trade for McNabb or as a free-agent destination for Garcia.

The Vikings, who turned to rookie Tarvaris Jackson by the end of the season, make sense because former Eagles offensive coordinator Brad Childress is now the head coach and a big McNabb fan, and former Syracuse assistant Kevin Rogers is Minnesota's quarterbacks coach.

Tampa Bay, under head coach Jon Gruden, also could use a quarterback and either McNabb or Gar cia would fit well in the Bucs' offense.

Chris Simms, coming off an in jury, signed a new deal late last season, and the other quarterbacks on the Bucs' roster include Tim Rattay, Bruce Gradkowski and Luke McCown.

Gruden and McNabb go back to the 1999 Senior Bowl, in which Gruden coached McNabb's squad. Reid has often pointed to that week in Mobile, Ala., that let him know McNabb was the right man for his offense.

Garcia, who will be an unrestricted free agent come March, also could be a fit for the Bucs since Gruden has shown he can win with older, veteran quarterbacks. See Gannon, Rich, and Johnson, Brad.

Would the Eagles really trade McNabb?

Unlikely, since they would not get true value for him since he is coming off the injury, and the salary cap hit they would absorb is $3.8 million.

Tampa has either the No. 3 or No. 4 pick in the draft (depending on a coin flip with Cleveland). It's doubtful the Bucs would give that up. Minnesota has the No. 7 overall pick in the first round. Again, that's a pretty good pick.

Then again, the Vikings or the Bucs could just sign Garcia as a free agent.

And McNabb would stay put, at least for another year (there would be a very minimal cap hit if McNabb is traded after the 2007 season).

"I know Jeff and I know how he is," a former teammate of Garcia's said. "After the way he played -- what was he 6-1? -- and then he won a playoff game. He's not going to be happy being a backup again. He's way too much of a competitor for that. He should be going to the Pro Bowl the way he played. He knows that. Now, you want him to be a backup, and get paid like a backup. That's not going to happen."

The former teammate then brought up a scenario that could really put the Eagles in a bind if it were to happen.

"Say Jeff does come back," he said. "And Donovan isn't ready for four weeks or so. If Jeff goes 4-0, or 3-1, are you going to take him out and put Donovan back?"

The Eagles are going to do something in the immediate future and that decision will have an affect on them long term.



Mark Eckel is The Times' staff columnist. Contact him at

Man, where to begin.

Garcia should be going to the Pro Bowl? Why? So that he can take his "friend" there for a moonlight swim?

There are also rumors floating and growing stronger from around that league that Minnesota and Tampa Bay could be landing spots in either a trade for McNabb or as a free-agent destination for Garcia.

That's just so wrong. Why would you even toss out anything like that? Trading McNabb is about as brainless as you can get right now. I can see Garcia MAYBE going to Minny, but Childress isn't an idiot, and he has to know that Garcia alone wasn't responsible for the 6-1 finish. Even beyond that, is he ready to deal with another Brad Johnson? Why would he go for Garcia and not pull someone from the draft? That almost makes no sense.

I say "almost", because Garcia going to TB makes even less sense, especially since they re-upped Simms. Even coming off a serious injury, they still re-signed him, and Eckel thinks they'll go for McNabb OR Garcia?

Both of these teams aren't ready to win it all next year. That Tampa D is old, and Minny's at least 2 years away. Bringing in an old QB to start for a team that's trying to get young is counterproductive.

He's trying to stir the pot, but this isn't even good stirring the pot. It's crap.

And I'm telling you, the scenario is set up for the Eagles - let Garcia walk, enhance the virtues of AJ Feeley as a backup, and keep Koy around just in case Akers forgets his maxi-pads. It's all right there.

Even though it was a shitty, bitter sportswriter, and even though it was the most far-fetched of conjecture, the fact that somebody actually wrote about trading McNabb makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

You want to get rid of somebody, why not Reid? He's had McNabb pointlessly wasting his true talents in this West Coast offense for 8 years, why not get a coach who will run the ball and let McNabb throw it all over the field? No, instead, people are actually talking about trading McNabb and then letting Reid trade up in the draft to select BYU's starting quarterback, who will throw 800 passes in his rookie season on the way to the Eagles' new dynasty of gold standards.

F-d said:I had a feeling Gaffeny was a better player than the way he looked for the Eagles and it turns out I was right (FRED!).

Calling super-sauce on that. Jabbney playing well with Brady as his QB merely reinforces what I said about McNabb and his "accuracy issues". I guess you forgot that discussion. Gabbney is still average AT BEST.

Calling super-sauce on that. Jabbney playing well with Brady as his QB merely reinforces what I said about McNabb and his "accuracy issues". I guess you forgot that discussion. Gabbney is still average AT BEST.

Led all receivers in the playoffs in catches, second in yards, tied for first in TD rceptions. "Average..."at best". Huh...I guess I'll just let the PLAYOFF MVP stats speak for themselves.

It's amazing how right I am even when I'm wrong.

Also, don't bring up McNabb...you were wrong about every single thing you said about him and his backup. Don't go digging up all that nonsense.

Bass, i agree it's crap, but man, never say NEVER...

I once rode a train up to NYC, MSG to see the Flyers play the hated Rangers.

The obnoxi in the seat in front of me, noticing my Lindros Jersey, told me that he'd be traded to the Rangers in a yr or 2.

I laughed at the obsurdity of that statement and his "logic" at the time.

Um, 2 yrs and a couple concussions later...

Led all receivers in the playoffs in catches, second in yards, tied for first in TD rceptions. "Average..."at best". Huh...I guess I'll just let the PLAYOFF MVP stats speak for themselves.

Chicken and the egg- I still submit that Brady makes his receivers look better than they are because of the accurate way he delivers the ball in stride with touch on a consistant basis. McNabb still can't do that. But go on ahead with your one sided debate, it's quite entertaining.

Seth, I'm not ignoring the possibility that he could be traded. The fact that he brought up two teams that either have QBs set or aren't in a position to offer any type of value for McNabb and posting it as a growing rumor is asinine to the nth degree.

Besides, when Lindros was traded, it wasn't exactly 1997, and his value had greatly diminished. McNabb is still the most valuable person to this team, and trading him so that you have a 37 year old Johnny Storm (Flame on!) take over for a year so that you can draft a BYU QB to have in your offense floundering around for 3 years afterwards is just dumb.

Chicken and the egg- I still submit that Brady makes his receivers look better than they are because of the accurate way he delivers the ball in stride with touch on a consistant basis. McNabb still can't do that. But go on ahead with your one sided debate, it's quite entertaining.

You mean Brady, the guy who lost his playoff game by throwing a rookie interception in the final minute with a chance to win?

If he was wearing a green helmet, you'd be calling for his head.

SNAP!

If he was wearing a green helmet, you'd be calling for his head.

Are you kidding?

I love Donnie.

In the same vein...

Now that Manning's thumb xray shows that he can play, would he get a pass if he loses and someone points out a few plays where the injury affected him?

I doubt McNabb would. Not in the biggest of games.

If Manning wins, he'll get a pass. If he loses, people are going to rape him.

Manning isn't in McNabb's universe of unfair criticism, but a similar thing is brewing, IMO.

Basically, there are the Manning backers (in the national media and by the water cooler) who contiually talk about Manning as the best QB of all time. This has helped create the counterculture of Manning haters. They have learned to hate Manning because they think he gets too much credit and their 1 and only defense is "He can't win the big game".

If Manning wins in 2 weeks, those people are all morons and will not hear the end of it from the people who backed Manning all along. If he loses, the haters will BURY him because they will feel vindicated and have been eating a lot of shit over the past couple days.

That's my theory, at least.

Manning should be looked at as a dorky Steve Young.

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