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f-dallas,

Then with the #2 pick you take Calvin Johnson and pick up Stanton late in the 1st. That would be a glorious draft, for me atleast.

As others have said, McNabb with a balanced attack (and hopefully at least one true starting quality wideout) is the only sensible answer.

What is a more interesting question is the one raised by F4F about 1999, hindsight and Garcia vs. McNabb. It's easy to argue either point . . . I'd say that some of Garcia's success had to do with a pre-crazy T.O. and a still serviceable Rice catching for him. I think Garcia is probably a better fit for the West Coast offfense, but I think in hindsight you still stick with #5 for the past 8 years.

Like I others, I thnk Brady Quinn has bust written all over him.

I think making a trade to the Lions for the #2 pick isn't enough return value for the Eagles (though it would be viewed as a coup b/c of the way top 5 picks are viewed in the league). But that scenario pre-supposes a few things as fact that I don't think would devvelop as some folks might predict.

It assumes that Garcia (Mr. fire in the huddle, win it all now, weak arm himself) will want to tutor a young QB as he endeavors toward one last moment of gridiron glory.

If he stumbles and the team follows him (which could happen if Jeff were the starter next year, once teams get a book on him), you're settting up a potential Jake Plummer/Jay Cutler or Campbell/Brunell situation.

If they trade McNabb they will be in rebuilding mode. That is the reality. With the pieces they have, including McNabb, they are in position to make a run during the next 3-4 years. But not if they trade him.

But as I've said before, part of my almost wishes he gets traded so the idiots in the fan base who want Garcia get their way and then have to suffer through a half-decade of suckiness.

Typical Negadelphia/Loser mentality.

It's kind of like asking the question, who would you want on your team...Moe, Curly, or Larry? Larry (Feeley) is the safe guy, doesn't stir up trouble and is pretty dependable, Curly (garcia) is the novelty item guy, can come up with some pretty crazy antics that are unbelievable, but would you really want him running your team long term? And then there's Moe (Mcnabb), isn't really funny, kind of on the angry side, not many like him, especially Larry and Curly, but is the leader nonetheless. Moe demands respect and he gets it!

I say, "Go With Moe"!!

Wouldn't Garcia be Moe?

Then with the #2 pick you take Calvin Johnson and pick up Stanton late in the 1st. That would be a glorious draft, for me atleast.

That's my whole point, really.

If things weren't going well with McNabb (not saying they are going bad) and you fel like there was a guy you loved in this draft (whether it's at the top or bottom of the first round), you have to consider the number 2 overall pick.

It's just speculation from top to bottom because I doubt the offer would even be made, but that's what the off-season is for.

Wouldn't Garcia be Moe?

well played.

Moe = oe-may
Larry = arry-lay
Curly = Curly-Q?
No, umb-day!

And it ain't even Friday.

I'm shocked... I know there are more than a few non-fans of #5 on this site but I would say 99% of them KNOW football, that being said there is no logic in trading McNabb... IMO he is a great QB(comparing to the other current NFL starting QB's)

Is he perfect??? Hell no who is

Does he have weak areas of his game? Hell yes, but he works to correct them.

I am an OSU fan and even though T Smith has potential he isn't a 1st round pick, Quinn is a domer with at BEST a slim shot to be half as good as lets sat David Carr... the guy from LSU is at best a crap shoot he is pretty good college QB but there is a LOOOONG list of those so unless the Lions or Raiders were willing to screw thierown futures and make a H. Walker or Ditka type trade McNabb stays... end of conversation.

I want to see #5 play here with the team Garcia finished with(offense) a balanced play caller wins here. IF they can keep Stalworth, Blunt and Garcia this Offense is fairly solid they could look to draft a RB or LB for once in the first round but that is for another thread...

heckert basically blamed his lack of production on his hold-out, not a mistake on the FO's part

Riiiiight; a first round draft pick not being in camp on time isn't the fault of the front office. Tell me - who the F else is in control of this situation, other than the front office???? They pick the guy. They negotiate his contract. How is this not the fault of the front office?

...and McNabb is easily worth 2 first rounders, so no - you don't trade him just for the number 2 in this year's draft. For fuck's sake, John Gruden was traded for 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders, and $8 mil in cash. Even if you think a coach as great as Chucky is worth that, you can't think that a top 5 QB is worth so much less as to garner only a single #1. Just based on past history, McNabb is clearly worth more than a single #1.

Dam I remembered the 2 1st rounders and some cash but didn't realize it was that much cash AND 2 2nd's

point very well made...

For fuck's sake, John Gruden was traded for 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders, and $8 mil in cash

that's unbelievable, the raiders got that many high draft picks and the team still became the worst in the league, that fast and that hard? that is basically the value of having an extra draft and a half to build from.

Shit, even Keyshawn garnered two first rounders. Not exactly high picks, but he wasn't exactly in the top 3 at his position, either, and a QB is worth EXPONENTIALLY more than a WR regardless.

I'm not sayign the Eagles should trade McNabb, but the trades you guys are talking about just don't happen anymore.

Teams used to throw picks around as recently as a couple years ago, but they've learned that it doesn't work most of the time.

Meshawn drew multiple first round picks, Parcells required a first rounder in one of his Patriots/Jets moves, Drew Beledsoe required a first round pick, Gruden's compensation was INSANE.

That said, I think McNabb for the #2 overall pick would be about where his value is on the open market. You can argue whether or not you feel it would ever be worth dealing a known for an unknown like that, but McNabb wouldn't bring a bounty of picks some think.

Remember, the team taking him has to assume the remaining $50 million or so of his contract, he'll likely require some form of re-worked deal with some bonus money to give him more stability on that team, He's 30, and he's been hurt 3 of the last 5 years.

You could look at it like "You are getting a 5 time pro bowler still in the prime of his career", but there's another side to it.

Remember, the team taking him has to assume the remaining $50 million or so of his contract,

Alex Smith signed a deal for 6/50. The new QB will cost boatload as well, and in all likelihood be not as good.

Trading McNabb for a pick right now is a PUNT. This team is still good/very good and has a chance to win a SB with him. Trading him is the equivelant of rebuilding while you're still somewhat on top. Teams just don't do that. Reason being is that it makes NO SENSE. If you've ever ridden the FO for not going the extra step it takes to win a championship and being content to stay competitive, how can you possibly justify THIS move?

I think part of f-d's reasoning is that it doesn't require rebuilding, since the Eagles played well without him under a new play-calling system.

Also, it's not just the contract you're taking on (in your Alex Smith comparison), but there are cap hits for such moves, aren't there?

Trading McNabb for a pick right now is a PUNT. This team is still good/very good and has a chance to win a SB with him. Trading him is the equivelant of rebuilding while you're still somewhat on top. Teams just don't do that. Reason being is that it makes NO SENSE. If you've ever ridden the FO for not going the extra step it takes to win a championship and being content to stay competitive, how can you possibly justify THIS move?

I'm not saying they absolutely should trade McNabb. My origonal point was "if some of these rumors are true regarding McNabb, teamates, and the organization, you almost have to take an ofer like this".

I wouldn't call it a punt. If you look at the Eagles mantra of always building for the future while staying competitive, would they be better (now and 5 years from now) with McNabb OR Garcia, Calvin Johnson, and Drew Stanton, for instance?

I have no idea, but that's the scenario you'd be looking at:

- You're choice of anyone in the draft not named "JaMarcus".
- The 26th overall pick
- Re-signing Jeff Garcia to start for 2 years or so until the next QB is groomed.

If I think I have a chance to win now, I'll keep McNabb for the next 5 - 6 years, Feeley as a backup and the 26th overall pick over that package any day, and worry about the QB situation down the road.

They need Calvin Johnson a lot less than they do a top 5 QB.

A no-brainer, to me.

You're missing the point, though. It's not based on team needs. It's based on whether or not any of the rumors coming out are true.

I get that, but I'm trying to say the compensation is not nearly enough.

Considering how well they played without McNabb, CJ might be enough compensation by himself. Not saying I want to ship McNabb out of town, either, it's just about total strenght of a deal. Like f-d said, McNabb, current WR's (minus Donte), and late first-round picks, or a guy that won a playoff game for them at QB, CJ, and another good pick. That seems to strengthen the team a bit, especially if you assume the play-calling would remain more balanced (which means fewer "special" plays from McNabb).

I get that, but I'm trying to say the compensation is not nearly enough.

After McNabb's press conference it appears clear he's going nowhere for any price and all the rumors were simply rumors (in terms of his feelings toward teamates and the organization), so this is all moot.

That said, what is the highest recent compensation for players changing teams? When is the last time a top 5 pick was traded straight-up for a player?

As recently as 1998, Sean Gilbert netted the Skins 2 1st round picks in trade...those things don't happen anymore.

Teams used to sign franchise players and pay the price in pick, but teams value draft picks much, much, much more since the salary cap started to be fully understood and all those teams went through cap hell.

Yes, they won a playoff game with Garcia and good receivers. You can look at it like that. Or you can look at it like McNabb got them to NFCCG with Thrash and Pinky three times. I trust him more to get it done with a balanced attack without CJ than Garcia with him. Upgrading at WR to the detriment of your QB position is not strengthening your team.

And you don't even know for sure it's an upgrade.

If Dave Campo and Spurrier were still coaching in the east, then I'd see your point. Since they're not, we'll have to disagree on McNabb getting them there with lesser talent at WR.

BTW, I guess you forgot how dominated those WR's were in the NFC Champ game. I don't want a repeat of that.

Sorry for all the posts.

I didn't mean to imply that there were 3 Lombardi's coaching in the division, now, either. I just think the league is better now, and more challenging.

Plus, everyone they played in the NFC Championship game found a way to handle the Eagles' WR.

I think it's easy to say CJ is an upgrade at WR, since we're talking about Avant and guys of that ilk.

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