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I never understood the race thing in the OJ trial.

So long ago, but wasn't it because Furman made some racist comments (unrelated to the case)? Since he was a detective of course it made the whole LAPD look like racist assholes and a victory for OJ came to be seen as a victory for all blacks who've ever had trouble with John Law, i.e., the man.

Not saying that's right or wrong, mind you, just trying to recall the events.

So long ago, but wasn't it because Furman made some racist comments (unrelated to the case)? Since he was a detective of course it made the whole LAPD look like racist assholes and a victory for OJ came to be seen as a victory for all blacks who've ever had trouble with John Law, i.e., the man.

That was part of it, but the idea that the racist LAPD was trying to pin it on a black man was so ridiculous I couldn't believe anyone gave it a shred of credence.

I mean, there were easier targets out there if they wanted a patsy.

I can't begin the understand the social complexities, but Bill O-Reilly and Rush Limbaugh aren't leading "Free Spector" rallies right now.

Not defending the Revs., but the deck was never stacked against Spector (other than the fact that he's guilty as fuck).

See the reason the Rev's exist is because racism exists. If everything were on equal terms and racism never existed, these guys would die like vampires in the sunlight. They feed on the racism and then where there is none, they create the perception of it. Denying racism's existence only makes them stronger. Face it white people- YOU'RE GUILTY of creating the monsters known as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton!

Again, please see my disclaimer on the previous page.

That was part of it, but the idea that the racist LAPD was trying to pin it on a black man was so ridiculous I couldn't believe anyone gave it a shred of credence.

I hear ya. But in cases like this everyone rushes to one side and defends their position regardless of facts. Same thing with the left and right with respect to politics. Topics become a matter of ideals and not evidence.

So once it became known that there was a racist in the LAPD, nothing mattered after that, in the eyes of many people. OJ came to represent something entirely different, which ties into what Fred is saying.

I think it's total horseshit, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

Isn't there some worry in the AA community, that things like this blind Vick support, is going to translate into a "boy who cries wolf" for REAl injustices?

Fred,
Even if I was to take your opinion of the feelings of BLacks towards the legal system at face value, doesn't doing the right still trump everything else?

Would it help if IMS issued an official apology to black people around the country for years of oppression (on behalf of all white people)?

Would it help if IMS issued an official apology to black people around the country for years of oppression (on behalf of all white people)?

only if he does it individually and in person to EVERY single black person that has legitimately experienced racism


BTW -anyone hear Bill O'Reilly's recent spew?

Subtle, smug, "velvet glove" racism at it's finest.

FB, I think I described the defense mechanism theory- which obviously you either haven't grasped or choose to "blindly" ignore.

Did you read the article, 736? Read it slowly, and you understand what I am saying. I have a feeling you may have missed a few things.

*****
FB- Yes, I read the entire thing. Twice.
Each time I came away with the feeling that this defense mechanism described, and layed out there as an excuse to defend those that are wrong, clearly, simply cos at ONE POINT long ago, members of these bad peoples race were not treated fairly) is pure and utterly WRONG.
W-R-O-N-G.

I understand what you say, that's its likely the cause of many AA's to defend blacks who do stupid or just BAD stuff, like idiots dancing over an OJ verdict, or cheering (rudely I must say) overtop speakers during a forum "Free Mike Vick". I just don't agree with it.

I know, I know, Im not goin to get it b/c Im not A.A. Sure, there's certainly something to not being able to 'know how it feels' to be Black and I'd never be so arrogant as to suggest I could.
But I know what is right,
And I know what is wrong.

And skin color doesn't have a place in factoring those equations or determining my responses to situations like court cases or charges filed- one tiny bit.


FB:
Um, who created the racist system and brought Black folks here in the first place? Another example of absolution of any responsibilty whatsoever. Yet so quick to point the finger and say "this is why we're better than them".

****
Whites absolutely started the problem & nobody suggestted Slavery was just a 'bad idea" or anything less than terrible. NO QUESTION! You act like I have denied this. Whats next? "S736 denies the Holocaust too!"
Come on dude.

But the programs Ive cited to even things out a bit, you have to realize were largely enacted by WHITES since you say that Racism is about power, & only whites have it. May have been inspired by Black Activists and civil rights movements, but enacted by Whites.
Affirmative Action. Quotas. The VARIOUS college or further education programs making it ALL TO EASY to attain a higher degree of knowledge at a fraction of, or for free, the cost to white students with equal or even better grades etc? Its of course not the be all end all solution- but its SOMETHING, its not as if whites just washed their hands of the matter entirely.
But there has to be accountability on the homefront for the African American community. Why are YOU so quick to point the finger at the whites STILL as the sole reason Blacks haven't advanced?

And nobody is saying "this is why we're better than them'.

Isn't there some worry in the AA community, that things like this blind Vick support, is going to translate into a "boy who cries wolf" for REAl injustices?

That's the point IMS. That's why they support him in the first place- because of the innumerable past injustices. It doesn't even come close to making up for those. How many O.J.'s make up for seeing your grandparents or parents or friends sprayed with hoses and bitten by police dogs for standing up for your rights as a human being? I don't know myself- everybody's got their own feelings on this I guess.


Fred,
Even if I was to take your opinion of the feelings of BLacks towards the legal system at face value, doesn't doing the right still trump everything else?

Yes. I'm just trying to help you understand the mindset, is all

Isn't there some worry in the AA community, that things like this blind Vick support, is going to translate into a "boy who cries wolf" for REAl injustices?

Just like that ESPN article, Vick has become (in the minds of his supporters) less of a man who's guilty and more of an ideal of how a racist government (and media) are trying to bring down a successful black man. Never mind the fact that he brought this upon himself.

No progress will EVER be made in race relations in this Country.

Im convinced of it actually.

The more people hold tight to the past and point to the past by which they were not directly affected, as an excuse to behave badly and root for those who break laws-

Nobody who isnt of color will take their cause seriously, nor their views.

Period.

Thats why intelligent AA's like Cosby for one, see how harmful some of the more recently adopted attitudes by AA's are for the cause that greats like Dr. King etc fought for.

736, I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you said- except this:

"simply cos at ONE POINT long ago, members of these bad peoples race were not treated fairly)"

This is a bone contention for me. Like we've discussed before- although things are clearly better than say in the 50's and 60's, obviously there is still a dysfunctional relationship between the races as it pertains to class, economics, and social strata. Sure there are rich athletes- but what percentage are they compared to the total African-American community? When people counter the argument of how blacks have it better because look at all the rich black athletes and entertainers, I just shake my head. Yes, it's better than before.

But before was hell.

I laugh too when I hear about NBA players for NFL or whatever as proof that things are better for AA's financially.

The percentage who make a livin at pro sports in ANY race is miniscule. Miniscule.
Shouldnt even be factored in.

No progress will EVER be made in race relations in this Country.

The more people hold tight to the past and point to the past by which they were not directly affected

Until you're able to see the correlation between the RECENT past and why the ghettos and prisons are filled with blacks, you're right- no progress will ever be made

Prisons are filled with blacks, because too many blacks are committing crimes that put them behind bars.

Fact.

Thank you GGB for the map.

When I get over there, I'll be sure to have all my countrymen bombard your e-mail box with internet scams and spam.

When people counter the argument of how blacks have it better because look at all the rich black athletes and entertainers, I just shake my head.

Considering that blacks have always been viewed by some over time as nothing more than either entertainers or athletic types due to breeding, it's not that much of an improvement.

The culture has absorbed a 'get rich quick' mentality as the only way to move up in the world, confirmed by the people shown on MTV who have this lavish lifestyle, making it seem extraordinarily easy to obtain.

It's like chasing a carrot on a stick.

So in your mind Seth- blacks are inherent criminals. It's that simple for you, huh?
No mitigating factors, no thought as to WHY- just "blacks are criminals, blacks commit crimes, blacks go to jail"

I wish I still thought in such simple terms.

I miss the Easter Bunny.

He never said that F_B.

So if an ugly dude, say, raped your mom would that be a good enough "mitigating factor" for you? He wasn't gettin' what he needed elsewhere?


F Mitigating Excus, er, "factors".

Fred_Barnett
RE: Vick Hilarity
9/26/2007 3:46 PM

So in your mind Seth- blacks are inherent criminals. It's that simple for you, huh?
No mitigating factors, no thought as to WHY- just "blacks are criminals, blacks commit crimes, blacks go to jail"




never said that 1x. ever. anywhere.

PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY.

PERSONAL CHOICE.

PERIOD.

Prisons are filled with blacks, because too many blacks are committing crimes that put them behind bars.

Fact.

Why do you think that is, Seth?

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