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heard on radio tonight that he's not just an un-named co-conspiritor, that he was in the first round of indictments, usually saved for the main defendents.

What a glorious train wreck.

Legal odds against Vick just got much longer


By Lester Munson
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: July 17, 2007


A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.

There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound at the moment. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will now watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who have already agreed to testify against him. If all three of of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, then crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was Attorney General in the early Sixties. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act, even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children that he had with four women, the kind of thing that is ordinarily worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. And then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

REPORT: VICK WILL BE SUSPENDED

Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reports that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is expected to suspend Falcons quarterback Mike Vick.

"Where [Vick] is in the most trouble is that he lied to the commissioner," a league source told Cole. "He told [Goodell] in April that he didn't know anything about this. The commissioner gave [Vick] every chance to come clean, be straight about what was going on. Instead, he just kept denying it."

Cole's report comes as a time when folks like ESPN's John Clayton are saying that Goodell "must" wait until the legal process runs its course until imposing discipline.

So who's right? In our view, the language of the revised Personal Conduct Policy does not require Goodell to wait. "Generally," as the policy reads, first-time offenders won't be suspended until there is a resolution. "Generally" applies, in our view, to the garden-variety DUIs and pot possession charges that litter the NFL police blotter.

"Generally" does not apply when a player is accused of killing multiple dogs in cold blood in the very same month that the player sat across from the Commissioner and told him that he knew nothing about the activities occurring on his property.

This is a rare and extreme situation, and it calls for a rare and extreme reaction. It's the biggest challenge of Roger Goodell's short tenure, and we're confident that, in the end, he'll get it right.

The Smoking Gun is there

The bonus is we get a new nickname.

Ron "Ookie" Mexico.

dousing a dog with water and then electrocuting it?! WTF is up with that? I've never seen a real dogfight nor do I want to, but after reading that article it seems much more like a sadistic counter-culture than a sport.

Here is a pdf link to the affidavit filed yesterday.

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/vick0717.pdf

Pretty gruesome stuff. A rape stand? Yikes!

I told you guys this was coming. It'll be interesting to see what action the league takes.

To the point about how gruesome dog fights are, I can say (as someone who has seen undercover investigative video footage of this brutality) that the sight is horrible beyond belief. These things sometimes last for hours until one dog is literally on its last legs. These are fights to the death. And if one dog doesn't kill the other, and the losing dog doesn't die from its injuries, it is commonplace for the owner of the losing dog to kill it b/c it cost him money and it embarrassed him by losing. This stuff is really sickening.

If anyone is interested, I have an excerpt from an underground book published by dogfighters that I can post. It describes in pretty graphic detail the lat moments of a dog that has lost a fight. The truly sick part is that the dog owners see it as a glorious day.

"after reading that article it seems much more like a sadistic counter-culture than a sport."

Gee, ya THINK??

Post it please, Julamy.

Thanks.

You gonna get raped, on the rape stand.

Dino, I guess I did state the obviou. But to a neophyte dogfighting person I somehow envisioned dogfights like you'd see in the neighborhood...2 dogs going at it until one runs away or lays on it's back. This stuff is, "sick, sick, sick. Sick in the head."

You mean it's not just a couple of mutts with boxing trunks and little gloves for their paws?

I thought that's where they got the name for the breed Boxers.

Per your request, this is an excerpt from a book about dog fighting that includes numerous submission and anecdotes from dog fighters. The text below is one such anecdote:

"Sadie had destroyed her face so badly that her sinuses were crushed, her whole face was pulsing up and down as she breathed and air ws bubbling out of the holes on her muzzle and around her eyes. The last thing Jolene did before losing consciousness entirely was throw up an incredible amount of blood -- we couldn't figure out how she could have swallowed so much. We carefully pried open her mouth and peered inside with a flashlight, and it was then we saw just how badly she was hurt. There was a big hold between her eyes -- big enough on the outside to stick a dime into and this hole went clear through her skull, emerging in the roof of her mouth just in front of her throat. A thin trickle of blood was running down her throat, she must have been hemorrhaging throughout the fight. We sat there helplessly, watching our pride and joy take one last faltering breath, and then Jolene was gone . . . It's a shame she had to run into one she couldn't beat, but it would have been wrong to deny Jolene her chance and we beleive it was the happiest day of her life."

I'd like to personally thank Michael Vick for doing this service for the NFL community. With his help we no longer have to listen to the daily T.O. report.

I'm curious about what kind of evidence the feds have to make them so certain Vick himself is involved in all the stuff in the indictment, other than the "he said" circumstantial type of evidence. Video, wire tap, DNA, photos, accounting books, etc. Should be interesting.

It's a shame she had to run into one she couldn't beat, but it would have been wrong to deny Jolene her chance and we beleive it was the happiest day of her life."



Ummmmmm yea.

Zak, you didn't see the pics of his property?

Julamy- was this book written by a guy named Stratton- who's penned several books on the subject?

Zak, you didn't see the pics of his property?

I did, although maybe you are talking about ones I haven't yet seen.

I'm just wondering if they have anything concrete that places him "at the scene" of all the crimes listed, without doubt, and in what form. Maybe I missed something, but pics of his property don't mean he was either there at the time the crimes were committed, or he was an active participant.

But again, I might be missing something.

zak, see f-dallas' above pasting of lester munson's article and the description he gives of charges under the "travel act".

Ah, my most intelligent post ever, directly above.

Im thinking that its a matter of time before a guy who's been indicted along with ol' Vick turns on him and there you'll have all you'll need.

Especially if more than 1 decide to talk, no?

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