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In retrospect, it was a tad below the belt. My bad.
Your thoughts?

With everything else that goes on in this world, I really could care less about a few pooches getting zapped, nor do I care if Vick zaps them.

az, i wonder if that is the natural reaction of someone in the military stationed in the middle east that has been witness to enough human suffering to be numb to "lesser" forms of cruelty, ie, that done to animals.

whatever the reason, i feel sorry for anyone who "could care less" about the the torture and killing of animals.

not passing judgment, just saying that is kind of sad.

Yeah, you may be right. I don't know if my experiences desensitized me or if I just came that way. I always found it difficult to sympathize with animals. I mean, I eat animals, provided they are kosher. I understand that most farm animals, even in the states, go through far worse than I can imagine. Nevertheless, the prospects never made me think about becoming a vegetarian. What’s more, I cannot see any fundamental differences between cows, chickens, and dogs.
I mean, I had a dog growing up, and if anyone tried to electrocute it, I’d probably beat his ass, but only because it was my dog. If some dude wanted to screw with his dog or even eat his dog, that was his dog. I don't know if you can understand that, but that's how it aalways seemed to me.

In retrospect, it was a tad below the belt. My bad.
Your thoughts?

Not much different than yours, except that I do care if pooches get zapped and I care that Vick did it. I think that if you consider this episode alongside the Ron Mexico incident, it isn't a reach to consider Vick's behavior narcissistic, bordering on sociopathic. And if Vick is a sociopath, I think it's bad for him to have millions of dollars at his disposal. It's the public outcry that will run him out of the league (along with jail time), which will take the money (and its power) out of his hands.

I also think that the argument, made in the article, that people shouldn't care about Vick because there are other issues in the world is absolutely absurd. You deal with issues as you have the opportunity to deal with them. I think anyone who says you should choose to solve no problems because you can't solve the worst one is a moron.

Vick co-hort cops plea

What’s more, I cannot see any fundamental differences between cows, chickens, and dogs.

You freakin psychiopathic mothereffer- you serious man? I'll cut you-

chickens are a man's best friend

McNabb weighs in (unfortunately):

McNabb: 'I'm a supporter of Vick'
Posted: Thursday August 02, 2007 07:46AM ET

Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb said he remains supportive of Michael Vick, even with the Atlanta Falcons quarterback scheduled to go on trial in November on federal dogfighting charges."I'm a supporter of Vick," McNabb said Tuesday at Lehigh University. "That's because I'm a good friend of his and also we're guys that obviously compete to win the Super Bowl. We push each other. Now, I don't know exactly what happened in that situation, and I think for all of us that have read over the stuff that was over the Internet, the report, you look at it as kind of like, 'Wow, you've got your so-called friends and family members turning their back on you now to make their situation better.' They're throwing you under the bus so that they can clean their name. That's unfortunate. That goes to show, I always have a saying that I've always lived by: If you can't trust family, who can you trust? It's an unfortunate situation, and I just hope everything works out well for him where he can get back out on the field."

Scooby Doo needs to STFU.

Im sure Vick is more worried that the same cats who dimed him out think he's actually cool with McDork, than he is about bein dimed out in the 1st place.

My current favorite aspect of this drama is that 60 of Vick's dogs are being held as evidence and are scheduled to be euthanized after the trial. I bet that's more dogs than were killed by Vick.

You do have to consider the fact that McNabb has his own agenda here.

He's been stealing toys from dogs for years and there was a 700level.com exclusive a couple years back claiming that dogs had pissed and shit all over his carpet in response.

This is just the latest in a series of back and forth bickering between Supah 5 and the K9 collective.

My current favorite aspect of this drama is that 60 of Vick's dogs are being held as evidence and are scheduled to be euthanized after the trial. I bet that's more dogs than were killed by Vick.

You're probably right and there is a degree of irony involved there, but there isn't a whole lot you can do with 60 dogs that have been trained for and actively participated in dog fights.

They don't exactly make the best house pets once they've been taught to fight and kill all things that are approximately their size.

I just saw the McNabb comments and was going to post them (in the name of full disclosure) but you beat me to the punch FD.

All joking aside, at this point none of the government documents have said that Vick actually killed any dogs. In his homie's plea agreement, he basically says that he and the other two did the killing, but Vick was essentially aware and gave his silent consent.

Now to be fair, another indictment with more charges is coming later this month or early next month. And that could contain information suggesting that Mr. Mexico actually did slay dogs. We'll have to wait and see.

That said, and to use a poor analogy, this thing is setting up like a mob trial in the sense that Vick is being billed as the ring leader and financeer of the operation who didn't do any of the alleged dirty deeds but was kind of the brains and cash behind the enterprise.

In fact, the charges he faces are part of the RICO Act (racketeering influenced and corrupt organizations), which is typically what the feds use to go after the mob.

"but was kind of the brains...behind the enterprise..."

Scary. I'm surprised it turned into more than one dog, a Playstation, and 800 pounds of weed.

In one of the most disgusting comparisons of the plight of those involved with the civil right movement, and the public thoughts of mike VIck and dog fighting, ESPN has sunk to a new low.

Senior ESPN writer,Wright THompson, does a page one piece on why those in Atlanta look at the public outcry over Mike Vick as the same as Rosa Parks, and Dr.King. Has everyone lost there F'ing mind?
Civil Rights Vick

IMS, it's completely shocking that you missed the point of the piece. Then again, you probably didn't read it. Just one look at the pictures was all that you needed to make your judgment, right?

This may strike you as surprising, but there's still a lot of racism in the south. There is vocal racism, and there is also the quiet kind, but a certain degree of racism does permeate the air in southern cities. Now do I think that the people in the article need to move on from the history of lynchings and cross-burnings in the past? Yes, but I also know that I'm not in their shoes. I haven't had to deal with what they have to deal with every day of their lives, so I'm not really qualified to tell them how to make peace with the horrible incidents they've witnessed in the past.

Is the African American community way out of line for backing Vick in this case? I happen to think so, but this article made me realize that these people are backing Vick not because of the facts of the case but rather because of the history of racism and judicial prejudice in Atlanta.

Does Vick deserve to be declared innocent until proven guilty? Absolutely. If he's been found innocent of all charges, should he get his sponsorship deals back? Most definitely. Will he be found innocent? I highly doubt it.

Yes, they are backing the wrong horse, but this article sheds light on why they are doing it. As EEB would be happy to point out, these protests are living proof that we have a long way to go to bridge the racial divide.

Yes Talon, I read the piece, but thanks for assuming otherwise.

I'm certainly not blind to the fact that there is racism in the south, or north. I just find a really weak ,and obnoxious to jump behind Vick only because they think that racism has something to do with people having a problem with him being involved in dog fighting. It makes these groups(NAACP,Southern Christian Conference) look like they will support any scum bag of anything, as long as they are black. Maybe it's just me, but they loose credibility, and look like the boy who cried wolf, when they throw there weight behind any person who will get them press.
As far as your point, "not walking in there shoes", I just can't see the link between a guy who is under federal suspicion of being "involved" in a dog fighting ring vs. public lynchings, equal rights and peace makers. But hey, maybe it's just me.

No one in that article is equating Vick with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I also feel that there is no evidence of racism in these charges.

However, the point of the article wasn't to show the racism in the case-- the point was to show why citizens of Atlanta might suspect that racism is involved in the charges and public assumption of guilt. You and I may not agree with their rationale, but until we've lived their lives, we don't have much room to pass judgment.

I think there's evidence of racism in the situation, but no, not for the charges. You've got a high profile African American athlete in a city that still harbors racism; and said athlete is also a QB, playing the position that still has some people thinking that a black man isn't smart enough to run it. Add on media nimrods who have equated dogfighting exclusively to the hip-hop culture, and you've got racial issues even before you put the two together.

Because of what these people have seen, and because racism still exists, it gives you an idea as to why they feel the need to back Vick. Not because of the immediate issues, but because of all the underlying tones that have brought these issues together. I think it's foolish to back him in this manner, because it only racially divides an issue further than really isn't part of the main issue.

You'd think this situation is waiting for Rev. Al and Co. to support Vick, because of his lofty status. Well, keep waiting:

On the heels of Nike suspending its release of Michael Vick’s new Air Zoom shoe, rap mogul Russell Simmons and Rev. Al Sharpton has teamed with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) to complain to Vick’s sponsors.

Hey, whaddaya know? The man CAN be right!

Anyway, if Vick did it, then he should be punished, no question. That's not the crux of the debate. And no one is saying that Vick is the next Rosa Parks. But racism definitely exists in this issue, even if it's not in light of the issue itself. I think it's a somewhat warped perspective, but considering what they've had to endure for years, it's an understandable one.

"You've got a high profile African American athlete in a city that still harbors racism; and said athlete is also a QB, playing the position that still has some people thinking that a black man isn't smart enough to run it." - Bass


Not for nuttin Bass, but I think for this very reason, The Falcons are the Klan's favorite team, Vick their favorite QB.

He's done little to dispel their contention.

And you won't see me disagreeing with that notion. But it's the thought that ALL black QBs aren't smart enough to play the position, while there are very notable counters to the argument.

It's just a vehicle that nimrods use to further their hatred of anything black, rather than just taking Vick as what he is - a mediocre QB.

I think Madden Football is racist.

Culpepper, McNabb, Vick, and Vince Young have been on the cover in the last 6 years and a white guy not named "John Madden" or "Pat Summerall" has never graced the cover.

Racists and they are clearly part of the media that is desirous of black QBs succeeding.

Well, most racists would argue that if you wanted to depict a black who doesn't work right, is ripe with bugs and just takes your money with no improvement, Madden football's the best example.

Are there really people out there who think black men aren't smart enough to play QB?

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if this is an old story that the media just loves to recycle because they have so little else to discuss. Roughly 25% of starting NFL QBs are black. Scores of college football teams, the apple of most Southerners eyes, feature black QBs.

I have plenty of racist relatives who like football, and not once have I heard them say anything about a black man being too dumb to play QB. Granted, they're not exactly embracing black athletes and offering their daughters' hand in marriage, but I think people have begun to accept the fact that a black man can run an offense.

As soon as a black QB starts winning, he's accepted, and it's really not all that different than the situation with a white QB.

Blame Andre Ware! (who, btw, found himself on a football game full of LEGENDS. So you've got Elway, Marino, Montana, Cunningham, Young, and Ware. Along with Bubbly Brister. Somethin' ain't right. But I digress)

I think you're right in that the media tends to blow things way out of proportion. But just as some people are still stuck in 1950, I think there's still a contingent (smaller than said year, but exists nonetheless) that still think that way. Of course, thinking that a black QB isn't smart enough for the NFL isn't the limit to their cluelessness.

Besides, that theory has been debunked many times over, and you've got a lack of intelligence at the position over the years that's not limited to skin color. Unless we adopt Ryan Leaf.

I have definitely heard people say (seriously) the Eagles won't ever win a Super Bowl with a black QB.

I've never heard anyone say "black QBs can't run an offense", but I've definitely heard the Super Bowl line both during the Randall years and the McNabb ones (strangely, no one felt compelled to say it during the Peete years).

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