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"he cites how many blindly support Vick"

I'd like to see the poll results then, because I said earlier, nobody I know ANYWHERE supported him. Of course there are going to be assholes calling the radio show supporting Vick- what else would be new? WIP. But implying that these fools speak for all black people, and him having you believe it- well, that's troubling for me.

G-Cobb as football analyst- OK

G-Cobb as social commentator- you can have him

Quick defense of FB, though I do agree with a good bit of what GCobb wrote (despite his inability to express it well) . . . but there is a tendency among some to suggest (perhaps subconsciously) that one black yahoo, or a handful of myopic black yahoos in a local special interest group, are representative of a whole culture/race/ethnic group.

Seth even used the word "many" in describing black people's alleged agreement with the stance of the ATL NAACP officials did/do.

Not singling you out chief, just mentioning that it is easy to see, and even obvious to some, how folks can feel that blacks do get treated as one monolithic group with a collective set of characteristics, behaviors, attitudes, shortcomings, etc.


Couple other quick things. The speculated sentence range is 12-36 months. But those are just guidelines. The judge can do anything he wants: give something in that range or less/more. (a quick bit of background Judge Hudson was a U.S. Attny. before he was appointed to the bench and he is known as a tough sentencer).

Also still lingering on the horizon are potential state charges in Surry county; though there is one school of thought that suggests that Vick's lawyers are good enough, and high-priced enough, that his plea deal could include a provision which bars any further prosecution (by state/local officials) on these same or related charges. That said, none of this co-defendants got that deal in their pleas (though their lawyers certainly don't cost as much).

Even with the guilty plea Monday, sentencing will be delayed until Nov./Dec. unless they ask the judge to impsoe sentence immediately so he can start serving time (which isn't likely).

Even with the guilty plea Monday, sentencing will be delayed until Nov./Dec. unless they ask the judge to impsoe sentence immediately so he can start serving time (which isn't likely).

Especially when you consider that he'll need the extra time to get one of those miniaturized inverted-spike dog collars surgically implanted in his anus.

More truth from G Cobb.

"This relationship between Michael Vick and his Dad is the situation that most African-American athletes have with their Dads. Very few players grew up with the Dad there and functioning as a responsible parent.

The disconnection of African-American youth from their fathers is the number one problem facing the black community in America. You hear all of this talk about racism, it's no where near being the number one problem. If you look at impoverished and crime-ridden communities like North Philly, West Philly, Southwest Philly, Camden and Chester, the number one problem you have there is youngsters growing up without enough love, direction and discipline. It's true all over the nation.

Michael Vick's situation is a classic case. I hear guys in the sports media point the finger at guys like Vick being spoiled as the reason for their down fall. They obviously have never been into any of the nations prisons which are full of African American men."

Looks like the National NAACP is not in accord with the ole ATL....

Dad: Vick staged dogfights years ago
Daily News Wire Services
ATLANTA - Michael Vick's estranged father said he pushed his son to quit dogfighting years ago.

"This is Mike's thing. And he knows it, " said Michael Boddie. He said he nursed injured dogs back to health around 2001 at the family home, where Vick staged fights.

Meanwhile, Dennis Courtland Hayes, the national head of the NAACP, rebutted an Atlanta official who defended Vick, and said the Falcons quarterback "absolutely must account for what he has done." *

i was just about to post the same quote, IMS.

makes me feel a lot better about NAACP leadership.

When are they going to put a leash on their local reps, by the way?

One guy thinks McNabb isn't black enough and the other thinks Vick is being piled on because he's perceived as a thug.

Perhaps the national head should send out a memo to all local chapter presidents on exactly how black people should be in order to avoid being both being ripped by the NAACP as pansy and prosecuted by the federal courts?

NAACP is an irrelevant organization.

They are pretty much a joke, agreed.

Plea is in:

RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and agreeing that the enterprise included killing pit bulls and gambling. He denied making side bets on the fights, but admitted to bankrolling them.

As part of the plea deal, Vick agreed, if asked, to provide "full, complete and truthful cooperation" with federal prosecutors "regarding any criminal activity as requested by the government." That raises the strong possibility that prosecutors will ask Vick to tell them what he knows about dogfighting operations or other criminal activity.

Federal prosecutors are still recommending 12 to 18 months in prison for Vick, a source told ESPN.com's Kelly Naqi.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.

The plea agreement also stipulates that if Vick violates its terms, either by failing to cooperate or by violating any law while cooperating, prosecutors are no longer bound by the deal to seek a lower sentence. In that case, Vick would also be liable to prosecution for perjury and obstruction of justice, according to the plea agreement.
In the agreement, Vick agreed to plead guilty to the first count of the original two-count indictment against him -- that he was part of a conspiracy to operate a dogfighting ring across state lines. In return for the guilty plea and Vick's cooperation, the government agreed to seek a departure from the federal sentencing guidelines, though U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson is not bound by any recommendation or by the sentencing guidelines.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case stated, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty.

The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants: Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary stated.

According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions in April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

Both sides agreed that due to aggravating circumstances from the facts of the case -- namely, "the victimization and killing of pit bulls" -- prosecutors would go above the federal sentencing guidelines for the charge, but would recommend a sentence at the low end of the scale following that adjustment. That comes out to a range of a year to 18 months.

That language in the plea agreement for Vick is identical to language in the plea agreements that were signed by Phillips and Peace, but not by Taylor.
Hudson, who will accept Vick's plea, has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. Vick will not be sentenced for several months.

"Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Vick's lead defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in a telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

Martin said Vick will "speak to the public and explain his actions," but he declined to say whether that will occur in court or in a news conference after Monday's hearing.

The U.S. attorney's office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.
The case began in April, when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the former Virginia Tech star's Surry County property and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring's gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, disclosing that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not perform well in test fights.

The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL's most popular players.

Vick was barred from the Falcons' training camp, but neither the NFL nor the team have taken further action.


My two cents....Judge may not accept the betting aspect of this. It is to save face with the NFL, and may just piss the judge off that he has been given an opportunity to come clean, and may not allow his plea.

NAACP is an irrelevant organization.

Agreed. That's why I'm joing the Nazi Nationalist Coalition instead. They do good work there.


But seriously- anyone hear the apology? I only heard a bit of it- but the part I heard sounded like Shakespeare. Written by a pro, and superbly acted- yet still a fiction.

I thought the opposite. No big words. Stuttered a lot. Sounded nervous and raw rather than rehearsed and polished.

I'm sure he was coached up, but it didn't seem overdone to me.

I thought the part where he said "I'm sorry" was reminiscent of Brando in On The Waterfront.

I thought referring to himself in the third person multiple times showed humility.

I actually agree FD. I am not 1 to judge whether he's actually turned to God in his most down time- many do when at their lowest of lows, so its not to be discounted off hand.
I feel tho, at Chicklet's urging that I watch the apology, that he seemed very sincere and realizes he's got a lot of work to do on himself and apparently not solo.

Hoping he can turn his life around.

As for this quote below- hey, when its funny its funny. 10! 10!! 10!!!

Fred_Barnett
RE: Vick Hilarity
8/28/2007 11:37 AM

NAACP is an irrelevant organization.

Agreed. That's why I'm joing the Nazi Nationalist Coalition instead. They do good work there.

sincere about his apology? bullshit. If he was sincere and completely truthful he would've said that he the only thing he was sorry about was the fact that he got caught. You do something for your whole life and then get caught and then, when you have no choice left and all hope is gone, you apologize for "a mistake", that's not an apology, that's crap. If he was going to be truthful then he would've said that he loved dog fighting and that he doesn't think it's all that bad, but that he won't do it again because going to jail and losing a hundred million sucks. I guarantee that's what he REALLY thinks.

Falcons seek $20M from Vick; will end up with less
08/29/2007 12:25 PM
The Atlanta Falcons formally sent a demand letter to Michael Vick on Monday, asking to recover $20 million of the $37 million in total bonuses paid to Vick. The real question: how much can they claim?

ATLANTA -- The Atlanta Falcons formally sent a demand letter to Michael Vick on Monday, asking to recover $20 million of the $37 million in total bonuses paid to Vick under terms of the 10-year extension that he signed on Christmas Eve 2004.

The unanswered question: how much of that $20 million will the Falcons actually receive? Most experts agree that the Falcons probably will eventually recoup only a fraction of what they are seeking, perhaps as little as $3.5 million by some estimates. And that amount might not be clear for a long time, given that the matter is almost certain to be resolved by an arbitrator.


Falcons president/general manager on Wednesday declined to comment on the team's efforts to recapture bonus money, and referred to comments that he and owner Arthur Blank offered on Monday during a press conference following Vick's plea.


"We have studied [our] options a lot," McKay said at the time.


The attempt by the Falcons to recover a portion of Vick's bonuses was not unexpected. For much of the months-long ordeal, it was speculated that Atlanta would seek to recoup part of the bonus money if Vick defaulted on his contract. Blank and McKay confirmed that in their Monday news conference. Neither Blank nor McKay commented Monday on how much the Falcons might try to recover; the amount, generally estimated at $22 million-$29 million in previous media reports, was confirmed for ESPN.com by league sources.


The lone certainty, at least for now, is that the Falcons are not liable for Vick's scheduled $6 million base salary for 2007, as he serves the indefinite suspension that Goodell imposed on him. That $6 million amount will be credited to the Atlanta salary cap for this season.


In terms of recoverable bonus money, though, the matter is anything but simple. And it is certainly complicated by an arbitration ruling last November in a case involving former Denver Broncos wide receiver Ashley Lelie, who, ironically, played for the Falcons in 2006.


In that ruling, an arbitrator stipulated that teams cannot recover option bonuses or prorated shares of option bonuses, and appeared to severely limit the money that teams could recoup if a player defaulted on his contract. Providing even more teeth to the ruling was that the decision by the arbitrator was sealed by U.S. District Judge David Doty, who has jurisdiction over the collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA.


Much of Vick's bonus money, $29.5 million of the $37 million, was characterized as roster bonuses in the December 2004 extension. Some experts who have carefully studied the Lelie ruling generally feel that roster bonuses will be viewed as similar to option bonuses if teams attempt to recover them.


That might mean Atlanta would only be able to pursue a prorated share of the initial $7.5 million singing bonus Vick received in three installments as part of his 10-year extension. For salary cap bookkeeping purposes, that signing bonus was prorated over six years, the 2004 through 2009 seasons. Since Vick fulfilled his contract in three of those six seasons, the Falcons might be entitled to only half of the signing bonus money.


The contract extension called for Vick to receive a roster bonus of $22.5 million in 2005, and a second roster bonus of $7 million in 2006. According to a copy of Vick's contract, the first of those bonuses was paid in three installments: $4.5 million in February 2005, $8 million on Oct. 15 of that year and $10 million on March 16, 2006. The second roster bonus was paid in full on March 15 of this year.


But for salary cap purposes, the Falcons converted about $26 million of the $29.5 million in roster bonuses to signing bonuses, allowing that the money to be prorated.


The Falcons might argue that, since the roster bonuses were converted to signing bonuses, they have the right to seek repayment. Vick would likely counter that it was the prerogative of the Falcons to convert the money into signing bonuses, that they were not bound to do so, and that they are characterized as roster bonuses in the original extension document of 2004.


Falcons officials have spent considerable time consulting with the NFL's Management Council, which is the labor arm of the league, about their rights to recover bonus money. It appears that the amount Atlanta is seeking is generally based on the remaining prorated shares of the three bonuses paid to Vick on the 2004 extension.


There is very precise default language in the contract and it leaves little doubt that Atlanta can seek some sort of recourse. In part, the default language stipulates the Falcons can take action against Vick if he "is suspended for violating any of the NFL's disciplinary policies or programs, including but not limited to the NFL Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse, the NFL Policy and Procedures for Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances, and the NFL Personal Conduct Policy."


Also included is a formula for determining the amount that Vick could be asked to forfeit if he defaulted on the contract. The formula: total bonus money, multiplied by the remaining number of games left on the contract, divided by the total games covered in the contract. By that formula, it would seem Vick could be liable for as much as $28 million-$29 million.


But the ruling in the Lelie case supersedes the forfeiture language in the Vick contract and, again, appears to severely limit the amount the Falcons will eventually recover.


Atlanta will not be liable for any of the base salaries in seasons Vick does not play. The base salaries after this season were to have been $7.5 million (for 2008), $9 million (2009), $10.5 million (2010), $12 million (2011), $12.5 million (2012), and $13.5 million (2013). There was a base salary of $17 million for 2014, but that season was voided once Vick reached predetermined playing time thresholds.


Including the Lelie ruling, the NFLPA has won several key battles in recent years to limit the amount that teams can recover in such default cases, and the players association certainly will take up Vick's cause in any arbitration action.


On Tuesday, union president Troy Vincent dispatched a letter to his constituents in which he reiterated that stance.


Vincent wrote, in part: "As you may have heard, the Atlanta Falcons have sent a demand letter to Michael Vick for repayment of certain bonuses previously (paid) under his NFL Player Contract as a result of his plea to dog-fighting charges in Federal Court in Richmond, and his subsequent suspension by Commissioner Goodell. As we do with all our members, we will represent Mike in any efforts by the Falcons to recoup monies previously paid to him, and we will make sure that his rights under his player contract and the CBA are fully enforced. As a union, our responsibility is to protect our members' rights as it pertains to hours, wages, and working conditions, and this case is no different. We will continue as an organization to protect and serve all of our members."


Good ol' Troy to the rescue. Hopefully the judge will fine Vick to the tune of $25 mil and give some to me (a self-proclaimed dog-lover)...

Yesterday on "The View", Whoopi Goldberg defended Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who pleaded guilty two weeks ago for his role in the fighting and execution of eight dogs. Rueters says:

"He's from the South, from the Deep South ... This is part of his cultural upbringing,"
"For a lot of people, dogs are sport," Goldberg said on the show. "Instead of just saying (Vick) is a beast and he's a monster, this is a kid who comes from a culture where this is not questioned."

Whoopi really might wanna rethink her "well they've done it in the deep south for years so it's cool" position. Uhh, they used to hang black people in the deep south too. What are your feelings on that, Whoopi? Is that cool too? Jesus, is there anything left on earth where everyone will say, wow, yeah, that's wrong. Does everyone have to argue everything. Or is life just some Japanese game show where we're all standing on logs over a river and smacking each with big foam bats all the dame time. This guy's an animal. Fuck him.

Also,
Is Newport News really the "deep south"? Does two hours from DC really count or is she just another AA who is making excuses for a fellow black, because to some of these Hollywoods, thats become more important than doing the right thing?

"Whoopi really might wanna rethink her "well they've done it in the deep south for years so it's cool" position. Uhh, they used to hang black people in the deep south too. What are your feelings on that, Whoopi? Is that cool too? Jesus, is there anything left on earth where everyone will say, wow, yeah, that's wrong. Does everyone have to argue everything. Or is life just some Japanese game show where we're all standing on logs over a river and smacking each with big foam bats all the dame time. This guy's an animal. Fuck him."



even my pansy-ass, lilly liver and bleeding heart couldn't agree more.

agreed, IMS.

i read that piece about whoopi goldberg yesterday and didn't put together that obvious point about why her statement was so asinine and could so easily been thrown back in her face.

Is Newport News really the "deep south"? Does two hours from DC really count or is she just another AA who is making excuses for a fellow black, because to some of these Hollywoods, thats become more important than doing the right thing?

Yup...I've been thinking the same thing. Do people realize that Newport News is 2 times closer to NYC than Memphis?

This isn't exactly "Deliverance" South. This is "Norh of Virginia Beach...snows in the winter" South.

An on a side note, Whoopi is shockingly ugly.

Only "shockingly"? You just get laser surgery, FD?

After all that mess with Ted Danson, I haven't looked at Whoopi in the same light. Or dark, whatever. I'm not surprised that she would say something like that, actually.

She's been ugly forever, but she hasn't been in the limelight very much.

At this point, I'd say it's 60/40 she's a dude.

Here we go again

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