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So, Harrison was using HGH and got busted on it. He admits to the HGH but says he never did steroids...he'll be suspended for 4 games and will rejoin the Patriots afterward.

Anyone else think that the 2004 Lombardi should retroactively be awarded to the Eagles now since Harrison's cheating allowed them to beat the Birds?

I think we can all agree that's probably the best course of action.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10326953

Harrison juicing doesn't excuse the 4th quarter.

Thanks for reminding me again - I thought I was over this.

On a side note, there's a rumor going around that more suspensions are coming.

I'd be floored if 85% of the NFL wasn't on HGH. If I was a investigating, despite the fact that I like him, Dawkins would be my #1 uspect.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Dawkins is on SOMETHING. And I wonder how big the # would be if you ask how many players have tried drugs at least one time while in the league.

Furthermore, isn't HGH more or less undetectable? Was he hulking up in front of the Pats' FO?

I would bet literally 85% of NFL players are on something.

T.O. and Dawk are mortal locks, IMO. These guys don't have human bodies and they both hit walls as they aged...then suddenly started having vintage seasons again.

Knowing it's undrectable and helps you recover from injuries, I'm sure most players over 30 are on it (if not more stuff).

Hell, look at offensive and defense linemen...

I don't know what the current average weight of offensive linemen is, but it's gotta be around 315 or more (probably higher). These are the average sizes of the "All Decade" linemen in the previous decades:

1920's: 227 lbs.
1930's: 227 lbs.
1940's: 229 lbs.
1950's: 249 lbs.
1960's: 258 lbs.
1970's: 262 lbs.
1980's: 270 lbs.
1990's: 299 lbs.

It should be noted that there was a big jump between the 40's and 50's because they started allowing unlimited substitutions, so they could start using heavier players and swapping them out when they got tired.

Other than that, do you see a particular decade in which linemen suddenly jumped 30 lbs per guy after the previous 30 years only provided 21 lbs. of average growth per linemen?

I don't think it's a coincidence that that massive evolutionary leap took place at the same time the juiced ball era began in baseball. I don't care either...I'm not going to go all Bob Costas on you...just saying I'd be shocked if a vast majority of the league wasn't on something.

Preaching to the choir, FD. You have to think that some of the size difference is due to how these athletes train getting up to the NFL - players are faster and bigger than ever, and you could point to a # of different factors (such as steroids in foods). But the point still stands that a large # of NFL players are on drugs, and the media turns away as not to kill the golden goose.

One argument is that the drugs are necessary due to the physical nature of the NFL, and that they help (TMQ talked about some teams giving anesthesia to some injuries so that they can play). The highly competitive nature of the sport demands that players keep a high level at all times or lose their meal ticket.

It's just accepted, and (as ignorant, stupid, and moronic as this may sound), the current state of the NFL could not be possible without drugs, at least in some part.

Wasn't the HGH what made Bonds' head grow nearly two cap sizes in three years?

What's the big deal? I happen to prefer my sports stars that are performance-enhanced. The faster and stronger, the better. I want them to perform as close to the video game as possible. What do I care if they croak at 45? That's why they get paid the big bucks. As long as I can get my weekly fix of bone- crushing hits and 20 homers a game- I'm fine with it.

And f-d, T.O. called- he said he's starting to think you secretly have a man-crush on him, with how much his name is in yo mouf!

At least it's just the name...

Fred (in case you missed it):

I don't care either...I'm not going to go all Bob Costas on you...just saying I'd be shocked if a vast majority of the league wasn't on something.

I don't care in the slightest. I pointed out Dawk and Owens as two exceedingly obvious examples, but the vast majority of the NFL is using and I couldn't care less.

Somebody ought to start the "We Don't Care If They're Juicing" movement. I swear, it's the damned liberal media again, always telling people what to do, what to think. Who cares if these athletes become sterile and grow monstrous CroMagnon-like heads? If their nuts shrink and their hearts enlarge is no concern of mine. Somebody ought to start a petition saing "We don't care" and send it to the commissioners of each sport.

I do care more in MLB just because the numbers are so important, but generally I agree.

What's the point in putting the toothpaste back in the tube at this point?

Because it filters down to lower levels. Pretty soon you have teenagers thinking they need to take roids/HGH because it's their dream to be a pro athlete.

This is supposed to be about athletic performance and ability, not just who can absorb the most juice.

Pretty soon you have teenagers thinking they need to take roids/HGH because it's their dream to be a pro athlete.

No problem. You just start testing for The Clear in 6th grade. Maybe earlier in the inner cities.

Presumably then you have no beef with Ben Johnson taking roids, nor the drugs taken by Irvin/Vick/LT or any other pro athletes, whether performance enhancing or just trip-enhancing.

What matters is that they entertain, and after all a good "was he on drugs" debate is just as entertaining.

I don't have a fully formed opinion, but to my knowledge, HGH wasn't illegal.

No matter what the drug is, it would be subject to law before sport and anything illegal by law would be illegal in sports (IMO).

Presumably then you have no beef with Ben Johnson taking roids, nor the drugs taken by Irvin/Vick/LT or any other pro athletes, whether performance enhancing

If you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough

or just trip-enhancing.

"Turn on, Tune in, Drop out"