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I thought videotaping the plays was illegal, but listening in wasn't. Are they considered the same?

I wasn't aware listening in was legal.

I think the VERY loosely verified rumors are saying that the pats were able to listen in on plays, conversations, etc.

Yeah. The rumor is that they wired some D players to grab the calls, then had someone sync up the calls against the video at halftime so they had an edge in the second half. Maybe real, maybe BS. I sure wouldn't want to be the one giving the order to wire up a player, in any case.

I don't like it, but I put it on the league. If they believe this is a serious infraction, they can make sure no team even considers it again with their punishment. We'll see what they do.

I know PFT is more fluff and speculation than actual content, but they had an angle on this that I found interesting. To sum it up: An NFL owners vote just barely felt short to wire up more of the offense [and sure to follow, the defense], under the [incredibly lame] premise that home crowds were making it too challenging for opposing teams to run plays. PFT speculates that since Green Bay made a small stink over the Patriot video tactics last year, perhaps word was spread around the league by supporters of this rule change, under the thought that any bad press about stealing signals might encourage a passing vote for next time.

I think that would be quite the conspiracy to really pull off, but I'm not shocked that word spread and the Pats were caught red handed trying it again this year.

It's not so cut and dry, though. A few years back on eof the Eagles players (a cornerback?) made a huge play near the end zone by watching tons of film and noticing that when one of the opposing WRs patted his backside twice, he was going on a post route. He saw it, read it, and it ended up being a game-changing play. I give a guy like that a ton of credit for taking his job so seriously that he tries to find tendencies in his opponents.

That is just smart. The anticipation of snap count, knowing where people will be by personnel packages, etc....just part of the game.

Having Sam Wyche's players feign injuries to slow down the Bills no huddle offense many moons ago = assholemanship.

Peyton's arm flapping = assholemanship.

Bellicheck = asshole.

Yeah, assholemanship puts it good. I guess cheating on some levels isn't so bad..

The pitcher with the sandpaper? OK

The batter with the cork? Not OK

Same thing for me here. The audacity, balls and mere fortitude to stand a fucking camera guy on the opposing sideline is fucking arrogant!!

They deserve whatever they get.

Kinda like Andy deserved the bad returns. He asked for it. Bellichek and Brady, the whole damned bunch of em can really eat a dick.

I hope the fine or docking of draft picks is serious bidness.

I remember Bruschi acting like a complete asshole after they beat Pittsburgh to meet the Birds in the SB. Class is NOT synonymous with that organization. I don't care for Manning (mainly cuz of how the Eli thing played out and how he and his dad influenced things), but you can't say the Colts or Dungy aren't class acts.

Unlike the Eagles... the Patriots acquired a second first round draft pick in next year's draft from San Fran when San Fran traded back into the first round this year.

Goodell has to take at least one if not both away from them. That would really hurt.

Spuds today suggested an appropriate punishment would be:

- Forfeit of Jets game.
- Loss of entire 2008 draft.
- Suspension for Billichikc for the remainder of the 2007 season.


Wanna guess whether or not the Eagles feel the Pats have "cheated" against them in the past?

Man... with that punishment from Spuds, you'd think Belichick was responsible for Spud's hair falling out.

As much as it pains me to say it, I have agree with Spuds.

You penalize the current team by forfeiting the Jets game. You penalize the coach by suspending him for the season. You penalize the franchise by swiping a year's worth of draft picks.

Agreed that cheating goes on everywhere, but remember the old rule that it's not cheating until you get caught. The Pats had it coming if they've really been doing it for several years. Integrity of the game gets called into question when you've got three Super Bowl rings or 756 homers to show for your cheating. Would ESPN have made such a big deal out of this if it were Arizona? Probably not because any cheating they're doing sure as hell isn't working.

I bet Shanahan would be guilty if investigaged.

The other person that I would wonder about is Fox....he always seemed to know what the Eagles offense was doing always.

The more I think about it, players who involve themselves in stupid acts are usually just people who are young, suddenly rich etc and make bad choices. Bill Bellicheck is NONE of those things. He has to involve many people to carry out the subterfuge. Teams were warned explicitly NOT to do this. No excuses.

The penalty has to be extracted on MORE than the coach, because he had to enlist more than one person to do this. Mangini knew that Bellicheck would be upto dirty tricks.....eff that asshole.

"The other person that I would wonder about is Fox....he always seemed to know what the Eagles offense was doing always."

I think that having 12 passing plays in a row (and a guaranteed PA attempt on the first play of every game) makes it all the easier to guess what the Eagles are going to do though.

goodell comes down hard on pacman...he deserved it


goodell comes down hard on vick....he deserved it


goodell comes down hard on tank....he deserved it


lets see what roger-boy does now that he has to spank the TRUE gold-standard

methinks i smell a lot of " inconclusive" evidence coming. imo, he has to chop some balls off for this, and just like with the other guys mentioned, he has to do it quickly and without reservation.

The whole organization should be banned from the N F L for at least 2 years, all thier Super Bowls should be with an *, this is total bull shit, cheatin Mother F!*%#$@*. I can't wait to see what happens with this!!!!!!!

Askdude, those were during the dink and dunk days. Reid actually did run after he relearned that passing all the time wasn't going to work.

I'll spot you the near useless pass to the flat to Pinskton. Those don't count.

I'm not really that convinced Jules. 12 of the last 13 plays in the Packers game were passes (not really that bad, but it seemed like it was somewhere around that) and the first play was a PA attempt. I'm getting tired of screaming "RUN THE DAMN BALL" at the TV year after year.

The Eagles were averaging over 3.5 yards per carry heading into their last 2 possessions. (3.5 to stay alive was my HS coach's mantra) Not saying they need to run every time, but Reid just seems to continually refuse to even try to run when it would be the most beneficial.

Ask,

I was making a comment to a 2002 game not to the madness that Reid has evolved to.... this was shortly after he moved to the Panthers from the Giants and even while he was the defensive coordinator with the Giants. Admittedly, I said this tongue in cheek cuz Reid is pretty predictable for all the size of his playbook. Shanahan I was serious about.

I just saw the "nfl.com" comments where Jeff Fischer said, "he understands the rules and the rules are very clear about that".

Basically, I find it despicable that a winning franchise with probably the best QB to play the game, now loaded with talent at WR, etc has to resort to something this stupid. Assholemanship at its finest.

Ah, I get it. (I'm just thick-headed sometimes) Do you think it is an even bigger story in that it involved Mangini? And how stupid is Belichick to get busted with a huge camera like that aimed at the Jets sidelines anyway?

I swear I think he acts like some stalking, jilted, ex-lover towards Mangini more than the supposed genius that he is when those two meet.

The more I think about it, players who involve themselves in stupid acts are usually just people who are young, suddenly rich etc and make bad choices. Bill Bellicheck is NONE of those things. He has to involve many people to carry out the subterfuge. Teams were warned explicitly NOT to do this. No excuses.

Jules, I'm not so sure he almost anyone know what's going on, the comments of a lot of the Pats players were either real good liars or they had no clue what was going on... I tend to think The Brain would let as few people a possible actually know what was going on... in all honesty it would take a camera guy, a security guy, and a good computer guy to sink the video up, then it would just be one more guy that know football enough to read the signals and see the play on the field to be able to give the Brain the "half time adjustments" Then he just passes them on to his coaching staff... as things he's noticed... He has had too many players and coaches leave his team over the years to have been cheating like this for at least 2-3 years and it not having been caught sooner... Plus it plays into his ego...

But the jets coach (whatever his name is) isn't stupid and probably knew what was going on and decided he would screw Bill once he got the chance...

As far as Goodell does my guess will be a 4 game suspension for Bill, a 100K team fine, and loss of 2-3 draft picks (1st 4th and 5th) just my guess...

I gotta wierd question, didn't this same type thing happen a few years ago with the Giants, there was no proof but a lot of talk about signal stealing?!?

Who knew Hobo Bill worked for McLaren F1?

But the jets coach (whatever his name is) isn't stupid and probably knew what was going on and decided he would screw Bill once he got the chance...

That's what makes the thing stupid. He tried to cheat (after he was specifically warned not to) in the first game of the season against a team who's coach is well aware of the tactics he uses, knows they're illegal, and wouldn't think twice about calling him out on the carpet. The height of either arrogance or stupidity to set yourself up like that.

And it's not as if they needed to do this - they were pounding them by themselves, without needing to do this. That's what makes it more annoying. Or course, anyone from Boston (including the Sports Nimrod) things this is getting blown way out of proportion, and if it was the Cardinals, all this would blow over. Talk about arrogance.

Bill Simmons had a big article on this, and I think he made a great analogy when he compared him to Nixon, who had no reason whatsoever to cheat, yet still resorted to that.

There just seems to be some big competitive character flaw in people who are seemingly brilliant at their respective 'games', but are insecure enough to think there's a small chance they'll lose.

I think in the end you'd have to be glad it's there, or these people would end up ruling the universe.

Wow- the verdict is in:

Billicheat got himself fined a half mil.

If Pats make postseason this yr, as expected- they'll lose a 2008 1st round pick (they have 2 tho, as Scotty noted earlier).

The team was also fined, didnt catch that amnt. tho.

Fairly stiff.

I'd say that is appropriate for being an open ass. Bellicheck's "understanding" of the rules needed to be clarified for him. Viola!

Bitch.

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