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or maybe it's more of a passing thought but after watching the McNabb inteview on HBO, and watching Vince Young last night a couple things occured to me:

1. I remember McNabb using his feet earlier in his career (and maybe it was the way the highlights were edited or maybe my memory is fuzzy in my old age) but I had forgotten he was that fleet afoot.

Piggybacking off that as I watched the Titans dominate last night (even though Drew Brees is still better than #5, right Peter King?) I thought that the modern school of thought about sitting rookie QBs for a years or half season to let them soak up the playbook shouldn't be a one sixe fits all rule.

In fact, I'd contend that while that may be the appropriate form of development for traditional QBs, I think it might be wiser to turn your athletic QBs loose (while working with them to fine tune the passing skills) when they are young at at their athletic peak. Further, if my theory that these kinds of QBs are most effective when they are younger and more athletic holds water, I'd argue that you should surround those players with talent when they are younger, not wait from them to mature into more polished QBs.

No real research to back this up, just recent memories about when guys like McNair, McNabb, Vick, Vince Young and even Culpeper were/have been most effective.

Any thoughts?

Also, since I never chimed in. I don't disagree with #5's comments. As usual they were (or more accurately their release by HBO) were ill-timed, but I have to agree with Phil Sheridan who wrote that he is the most unfairly criticized athlete in modern histoty.

That said, I think it really is time for a divorce between team and player.

There is no relation between the first part of your post on developing quarterbacks, and the last part of your post about time to divorce, correct?

I don't think the divorce is between McNabb and the Team, so much as it would be between McNabb and the city of Philadelphia, ie. the fans. That is where the criticism is coming from.

Kordell Stewert started 2 years after getting drafted, and led the Steelers to the AFC title game, and he did have a good supporting cast (I believe; can't think that far back), but at some point in the game you need your QB to make a play for you. And with more athletic QBs, if they don't have as deep a grasp of the situation, they may end up hurting their teams at that crucial point. Where it kills them is that sometimes they try making a play and end up giving the game away.

Randall's an example of an antithesis, as he was very effective with a ton of weapons, a better grasp at an offense, and a more mature outlook at the position. Even if he had an established playbook in Philly, I don't think he would've done as well as he did in Minnesota (as far as how far they went), even though it's statistically similar to his best years in Philly.

It's a weekly process, with no real blueprint, and you have to hope that the QB makes plays with his arm in a pressure situation, since teams will take away his athletic ability as the games become more important.

As far as 5's concerned, I wonder how much damage Reid did to him by instilling this "win my way" mentality, which I think has helped to contribute to his current state. I remember the game against the Redskins where they're still picking up pieces of Mark Carrier's pelvis off the ground after McNabb faked him out en route to a victory. Even then, people around here bashed McNabb for "not playing the QB position right", and these people wouldn't have been satisfied if he mimicked Randall's 4 TD performance against them, either. But anyway - Reid's stubborn philosophy keeps 5, I believe, from realizing his true potential, because he has to win his way. I still keep getting images of that ridiculous stand in SF years ago, where Reid refused to do a bootleg or even a QB sneak.

In fact, I'd contend that while that may be the appropriate form of development for traditional QBs, I think it might be wiser to turn your athletic QBs loose (while working with them to fine tune the passing skills) when they are young at at their athletic peak. Further, if my theory that these kinds of QBs are most effective when they are younger and more athletic holds water, I'd argue that you should surround those players with talent when they are younger, not wait from them to mature into more polished QBs.

Sounds great in theory- EXCEPT

the reason they hold the QBs back until they know the playbook and how to read NFL defenses is so they don't go out there and get killed because of not having enough game experience. Athletes or not.

Yes, the first part was unrelated to the second part.

Like I said it's a theory, but I look at guys like McNair and even McNabb (the larger, oft injured, less mobile version) now -- as compared to thier former, younger selves -- and wonder if it doesn't make more sense to put weapons around them when they are young and have all of their athletic faculties about them. If you wait until an athletic QB matures and ages, don't you risk the possibility that by the time he is polished, his frekish athletic talent that made him such an intriguing prospect has been used up or taken from him by injuries?

Freakish talent can only get you so far. At some point teams will neutralize it and you'll be forced to make a play as a QB. Vick, for one. Stewert, for two.

Think Warren Moon instead of Michael Vick. That's what you want to acheive.

Randall's 4 TD performance against them,

I remember losing it after watching that game and the late game TD. But then again, I lost it when McNabb tossed a last second TD against the Gints to help the Birds win 10-9.

I just realized, I've contributed nothing to this posts theme. Jules...signing off.

Uhhh....Ideally, don't you want to surround any QB with lots of talent at all phases of his career, beginning, middle, and end? Isn't that the goal of every team in the league no matter what type of quarterback they have?

I feel like I'm in a Guinness commercial here.

Surround a young athletic QB with weapons? Brilliant!

SZR, that's an ideal concept. Unless you've created a system that's so highly regarded, that any of the Level members could go out there and contribute.

Yep yep yep, the good ones use wood. But the truly great ones use sand.

I just realized, I've contributed nothing to this posts theme.

So what were you talking about Jules?

You've contributed nothing to this site since you've been here. Why start now?

Good one Talon.






You talking to me or Jules?

Here's a theory...McNabb goes back home to Chicago next year, that defense stays intact, they march through the NFC, and all the blame goes on the Eagle's front office for not surrounding McNabb with quality receivers in the first place.

Good one Talon.


You talking to me or Jules

Gawd you are stupid skippy.

TheTalon
RE: a theory . . .
9/26/2007 12:57 AM

You've contributed nothing to this site since you've been here. Why start now?





Heh, tell me again at the next tailgate about rippin some people sometimes in a quasi brutal manner.

NTFF!~

Uh, that'll be Mr. Skippy to you Munch.

My apologies...

Gawd you are stoopid Mr. skippy!

My apologies...

Apology accepted. My feelings are still hurt, but i'm sure, in time, i will heal.

I'll tell you what won't heal is the whole Mississippi Burning thing going on the level.







And I'm from Oklahoma!

Um, diaper up my man.

I'll tell you what won't heal is the whole Mississippi Burning thing going on the level.

Dialog is the first, protracted step.

What we're doing here is historic- either get on the bus or get the hell out the way!

Um, diaper up my man.


Copy that, 10-4, there's a 1430 in progress. I repeat a 1430 is in progress!

"Here's a theory...McNabb goes back home to Chicago next year, that defense stays intact, they march through the NFC, and all the blame goes on the Eagle's front office for not surrounding McNabb with quality receivers in the first place."

EFnM, even if this happens, it would mean nothing to anyone who has an office in the NovaCare Fortress.

Facts are not relevant! Behold and Worship the System!!!