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The kids who shoot up schools have no idea who The Cure is- Im not sure Fat Bob does anymore- and those incidents happen at a 1000/1 ratio with black on black shootings.

It's shocking to me that you don't see that, BTW. And you mention "The Cure", I don't think they have one piece of confrontational or aggressive lyric in their entire body of work. But I have a friend who may know better than me....

Thank you GGB for hoppin in there w. essentially the same point.

Bad correlation FB.

The Cure was a sideswipe at 736- obviously to all except Glenn

F-dallas- I'll offer you a deal.

You don't blame violence in the ghettos on rap music;

I won't blame Columbine and other mall, school, and McDonald's shootings on Marilyn Manson and the Cure.

Deal?

First, I'm not blaming violence on rap. I think it's a cycle of violence that just repeats itself.

Second, you go get The Cure Lyrics glorifying shooting up schools and I'll try to find lyrics about senselessly killing some in a rap.

Wanna race?

NTFF!


(Does "Killing an Arab" count?)

Blame Camus.

I too thinks he believes alot of what he writes but I also look at the WHY he does some the writing he does. He is just as much a sensationlist and protagonist as he is a concerned citizen. He was quite deliberate in adding the HH angle and his placement of it in his article. Thats what I wanted to point out.

I took mercy on you and sat Calvin Johnson and Ryan Grant. Beating you with The Real White Lightning (Welker) is so much more gratifying.

Very nice NEAG. VERY NICE.

I gotta admit, F-d. That was fuckin funny.

"Second, you go get The Cure Lyrics glorifying shooting up schools and I'll try to find lyrics about senselessly killing some in a rap."



Hint for F_B: You might wanna switch up and blame Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam. But I will guess that most of this crowd is so fed up with his arrogance that not much offense will be taken.

you go get The Cure Lyrics glorifying shooting up schools

Edit:

"you go get The Cure Lyrics so depressing and morose that glorifying cutting myself and dressing like a freak seems like a great idea"?

fini

While pointing out Whitlock's main issue (responsibility), specifically pointing out HH is a bad example of something that can be improved to bring up the overall situation.

I think HH plays a huge role, but (as stated before), it's not so much a cause as it is a symptom. Those lyrics I posted were from the "Stop the Violence All Stars" (duh), and this problem was happening even in the 80s.

Whitlock's inferred solution (and yes, saying how one problem that glorifies x,y,z that's prevalent in a society where some issues are x,y,z do infer that a removal will bring improvement) doesn't point out that removing it will not change the overall status - lack of education, lack of desire, lack of desire for an education, overall laziness, desire to work the system instead of working for the system, a sense of entitlement brought on by cats who have their own agendas in mind and don't care about the AA community, etc. are all issues that changing the lyrics of a song won't solve. All those could've been cited in the article, yet none really received as much attention as HH (granted, it wasn't a lot, but enough to make it seem like it was being singled out).

Whatever. I'm sure he's done his job in further polarizing the HH community and placing more emphasis on not only the chuckleheads that don't deserve publicity, but taking it away from those positive influences in the HH community that are as far away from "supermanning that ho" than FB is from Jenny Craig meals.

It makes me wonder how I keep from going under...

Fred_Barnett
RE: Sean Taylor shot
11/29/2007 12:51 PM

you go get The Cure Lyrics glorifying shooting up schools

Edit:

"you go get The Cure Lyrics so depressing and morose that glorifying cutting myself and dressing like a freak seems like a great idea"?


OK FB- you're on.
Find me a set of lyrics like that.

"are as far away from "supermanning that ho" than FB is from Jenny Craig meals."



NTFF.


Or was that Black on Black crime?

Ooops, I think I took that as the "wrong" FB.

Normally, I'm left leaning on many issues, but this is one of those more complicated issues.

Sean Taylor's violent ending and hip hop have NOTHING to do with one another. People say the article stated it as "playing a role" is saying it deserves partial credit.

The problem is the glorification of a lifestyle and that a person's manhood is associated with the "thug" personna. That is a fucking retarded message. The glorification of greed (money), subjugation of women (I mean ho's/bitches) and violence while they speak to the reality of the existence of some people, it ought to be talked about in the context of shame that it is part of the black culture.

As for other forms of entertainment and its capacity to incite and influence behavior, well, there are NUMEROUS studies that support that. Violent games DO influence the behavior of children causing them to be more aggressive. Can't tell you the number of 10-15 year olds who say some graphic and highly disgusting things on XBox live routinely. Why wouldn't that carry over into the real world? It doesn't mean they are going to get all "Gears of War" on their classmates, but it could easily lead to more aggressive behavior in the form of bullying, physical harm (short of death), etc.

Bottom line, Taylor died because of the environment he lived in and the people he ran with. Not because of hip hop. Having said that, I have little doubt that hip hop influences the behavior of children/young adults and NOT in a positive way. But hip hop is not alone in that.

Stupid shit like the Bachelor, Who wants to Marry a Multi-millionaire?, the Bisexual show on MTV, Flav's retarded "reality" show, etc also do nothing to keep many folks just above the level of functioning retards.

my comment is that it should be talked about as a negative aspect of black culture that and needs to be reversed (not to say the culture is a shame).

If I didn't sift through pages of this shit, I wold have beat you to the punch Jules.

It is the image portrayed by the HH culture more than the actual lyrics.

I think this is the problem. If kids grow up listening to rap, it gets into their brains. It re-establishes a culture of stupidity, violence, and disrespect in the next generation.

"I disagree, simply b/c I don't see gamers, or horror movie fanatics, or other comparable fans of a particular genre being into that genre's message or being stupid as a result of it. "

The gamers and horror movie fanatics issues just are not as blatant or covered. A friend of my sons (without and boundaries), watches every slasher film and plays slasher games. He has been doing this since he was about 5. The boy has no emotions or regrets for his actions. I have already heard about the "re-creations" of scenes on animals he has done. Needless to see, I have been directing slap jr. away from him as subletly as possible. This kid is a ticking time bomb.

Of course, the kid is also into hip-hop, so who knows what will make him blow.

wow, what a sloppy post.

Normally, I'm left leaning on many issues,

No worries Jules- don't forget Eazy-E was a Republican...

"do nothing to keep many folks just above the level of functioning retards."

I've always looked at cultures as having 'Stand outs' and 'trash' elements. All cultures have them, from the bangers to the rednecks that value little and feed on fear and ignorance.

The NFL really needs to step up and make this an example to the young players out there. Just because you're making 7 figures a year doesn't mean you can live like a banger running around trying not to get killed day to day.

A lot of it comes down to accountability. Most 'trash' cultures don't learn that, they learn how to swindle and manipulate to cheat the system. Accountability in this instance is a player under contract with a team who needs him to perform so they can win, sell more tickets, sell more product, and make money off of the investment they made in him. It also comes down to pride in serving with the people who have your back on the field. I don't think many 'banger' players care much about either, and if they don't they won't be as successful in the league. Teams can't market a Tank Johnson like they can even a TO or Chad Johnson, who for all of their trash talking lead clean lives, free of the elements that can lead them to financial harm. Sure, they may not be the best teammates in the world, but at least the team can depend on them to show up if they're healthy, and they take great pains to stay that way.

It's just a shame most of these guys get exploited before they can really rise to greatness.

Lyte you kind of touched on the thing that bothers me most about the whole fuss being made about Taylor’s death... He brought it on himself...

Over the last few days I've heard a lot about he had done a 180 degree shift in his life after his daughter was born, not only a grown up thing to do but also made me think I had mis-judged him... WRONG!!! Had he changed his life, yes. Had he cut the "bad element out of his life, possibly or at least cut it back to a point. Was he putting himself in bad situations that would/could lead to trouble?!? DING-DING-DING!!! We have a winner, the problem is he knew about the bad stuff that goes on and he had been part of in FL. Yet he, against the advice of his girlfriend, his lawyer, other players, and his father he stayed put in the same city, neighborhood, even the same house... He knew there were people that hated him, and that there was a real chance they might come after him. He stayed, why it makes NO sense other than he made changes to the surface of his character but not who he really was, a thug... If he really did believe the crap he was spewing to friends, coaches and family he would have moved his family away, it's not like he wasn't financially secure enough to buy another home... He stayed and it cost him his life, like I said before I feel bad that his daughter will grow up without knowing her dad but I feel no sympathy towards him at all.

Sympathy, I feel for him, but there is no surprise.

Lyte, what I meant by my comment is that the basic pop culture and most media does not espouse ideals of: accountability, intelligence, public service, wisdom, etc.

Unfortunately, that ultimately becomes a reflection of what the society watches/is. You are told that so-so is heroic on the field. Oh yeah, what about the poor kid from Arkansas that laid it all on the line for his country in a foreign one while most of the nation was shopping or watching Dancing with the Stars? I guess, in my mind, entertainment doesn't have to exclude noble ideals/intentions and focus on sex and violence. The bottom line is Joe Public looks at the imagery that surrounds him and emulates. BF Skinner talks about this in his learned behavioral theory. Piaget's model of learning tells us that only 1/3 of the adult population is truly and fully capable of abstract thinking. That means that the many that fall under the Gaussian curve will succumb to this shit....be it rap, Xbox, Sopranos, Dancing with the Stars, Bachelor, etc. Most basic elements of culture/society recognized that certain expectations of people had to be emphasized in order for people to live up to those standards. With this crap (masquerading as entertainment), it doesn't do that. Personal accountability is probably the single biggest thing that is ignored. Political correctness de-emphasizes this the most and coupled with reality shows, it really drives home the stupidity.

Are many in the lower socio-economic strata starting behind the 8 ball? Yes. Does that mean that nothing can be done about it? No. A simple example is how rap DOESN'T reflect the work necessary to get out of that situation. I mean, there is a black girl (19) that works in our department who is shy, but one of those people whom you meet and think, "she's good people". Her family is very persistent on her need for higher education. One day we had a long discussion about how she works too much that she isn't able to study. She explained to me that she needed the money. So, I asked her to compile a list of her expenses and we reviewed them. The amount of waste on "entertainment" was the glaring problem. I told her that, considering the difficulty that many of us face in this world, she doesn't have to worry about what Jay-Z is telling her or whatever. She needs to hit her books. Those people get rich off your "entertainment". Your mind needs to get rich off your education. Now, I convinced several people in our department to help pay for her school credits per class provided she gets a B+ average or higher. The difference is night and day for her. I didn't want her to feel that she had to worry about money at the expnese of her education, but I warned her about how she spent her money for her sake.

The point of my long winded expose' is that all of this that is labelled as entertainment is ok but for many it becomes brain rot. Bronx tale said it best with Bobby Dinero talking to "C" telling him, "does Mickey Mantle pay your rent?". Ultimately, more positive/constructive messages need to be incorporated into entertainment, regardless of media.

This is not Sean Taylor and rap but a testimony to elements of our society.

Excellent post

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