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All "rock n roll" is now is a bunch of whiney suburban guys talking about some chick.

That's why I quit listening to all the sentimental stuff and went straight for the speed and hate metal. That shit rocks!

So you're not talking about rock n roll, you're talking about a small subsect that relatively few people listen to, and haven't emulated in a really violent culture. Got it.

lighten up Francis

Yeah...it's a weak argument.

No one says rap is completely to blame and if rap was eradicated tomorrow, the violence wouldn't immediately stop.

However, when you hear one of the trigger men lived in the ghetto, had multiple arrests in his young life, and had a MySpace page with pictures of him rolling in money (while listing one of his hobbies as "counting money"), it's not difficult to guess whether he was taking cues from poor people in the streets or rich people bragging about killing, stealing, and dealing their way to the top.

Obviously, you haven't heard a word I've said...but I'm used to it.

The imagery and subject matter didn't originate out of nowhere. Where do you think it came from? Thin air? The music represents the reality, not the other way around. In this case, we KNOW what came first (the chicken or the egg). How many times can I explain it?

You must completely ignore every time we say we're not blaming hip hop, or that this culture is what it is b/c of hip hop. I honestly don't know how you could have missed that so many times, but then I've seen you do it with every topic.

The imagery and subject matter didn't originate out of nowhere. Where do you think it came from? Thin air? The music represents the reality, not the other way around. In this case, we KNOW what came first (the chicken or the egg). How many times can I explain it?

So it's always been this way, it's not getting any worse, and since there was violence before rap, we should just throw our hands in the air and say "oh well"?

Got it...consider it done.

What are you blaming then, KB?

You're right about one thing- I have no idea anymore who or what you're blaming. One day it's "hip-hop", then the next day "We're not blaming hip-hop MUSIC, but hip-hop culture", then the next day "No, we're not blaming hip-hop, we're blaming "black" culture, and so on and so on.

How can you not blame "hip-hop" but blame "hip-hop culture"?

AH FORGET IT.

Everytime we head in this direction, I start to get a headache I'm so frustrated.

I actually think I've explained my point very well in several different ways. Obviously there's an understanding gap somewhere.

So it's always been this way, it's not getting any worse, and since there was violence before rap, we should just throw our hands in the air and say "oh well"?

Recognize the core problem and give it the attention it deserves instead of pulling out the popular 1950's solution of "blaming the music". Been there, done that.

And the core problem is?

The economic plight and hopelessness(resulting in the drug trade and gun violence) of the urban poor.

F_B, if you're confused about who I'm blaming, you have yourself to blame. You really never read a thread through, and always misconstrue arguments, things everyone else can understand. Then you go off on weird tangents.

When did I ever say "hip hop" is to blame? Hint: never. Seriously, instead of just going off b/c you're pissed and making 4 posts in a row b/c you can't collect your thoughts in one post, slow down, relax, and make sure what you're saying about other posters' comments here is true.

Animal out

Am I missing something, or does the recent developments not really change anything about what Whitlock said/wrote? He blamed for the "Black KKK" for hurting other blacks. Is that not what happened? Should we check the playlist on these fine gentleman's Ipods that they stole from someone, to see what kind of music they prefer?

I just went back and re-read Whitlock's article. GGB's right.

FYI, the latter part of my post is a joke.


Depending on your outlook, toss out Hip-Hop and I think most of Whitlock's article still stands, though I have not gone back and re-read it.

When did I ever say "hip hop" is to blame?

Contrary to your obviously inflated ego, you're not the only person I'm addressing here. The popular sentiment seems to me is that "rap music" or "rap music culture" is the main reason for gun violence- that is the debate I'm having with others here. What are you arguing (probably with yourself) again?

Shitting On Your Lawn,

Big Dog Out

How weird that I thought you addressed me when you used my name, then "You" in the next sentence. My bad.

Contrary to your obviously inflated ego, you're not the only person I'm addressing here. The popular sentiment seems to me is that "rap music" or "rap music culture" is the main reason for gun violence- that is the debate I'm having with others here. What are you arguing (probably with yourself) again?

The main reason? Who is saying it's the main reason?

I'm saying it would be silly to ignore the only form of music young black males listen to when every problem in the ghetto is glorifed in that music.

The African American community doesn't have a patent on hopelessness or poor economic conditions. They do set the "gold standard" for violent crime (particularly within their own race).

I'm not suggesting rap should be banned, but if these rappers care at all about their communities, they'd be better served trying to make positive changes instead of bragging about how their lives of crime and violence made their wildest dreams come true.

I'm not suggesting rap should be banned, but if these rappers care at all about their communities, they'd be better served trying to make positive changes

I've got no problem with that sentiment.

Here's one for you:

I've got a problem with the implied sentiment that all hip-hop is homogeneous.
The stereotype is ruling the day- and I'll be the first to say that most rap nowadays I find pretty tedious. Then again, the majority of record company execs pushing this crap are...(cue the Jeopardy music)

Edit:

I'll be the first to say that most rap nowadays (on mainstream radio) I find pretty tedious.

"Then again, the majority of record company execs pushing this crap are...getting busted for assault?

I've got a problem with the implied sentiment that all hip-hop is homogeneous.
The stereotype is ruling the day- and I'll be the first to say that most rap nowadays I find pretty tedious. Then again, the majority of record company execs pushing this crap are...(cue the Jeopardy music)

I try to be careful when I use rap/hip-hop. I think Rap is the troublesome little bastard child of Hip Hop and serves little to no purpose in society.

There were some great rappers, but they were few and far between. The music is mostly terrible and this is not coming from a a guy who hates rap.

I agree most mainstream is crap, but there are lots of great rappers out there that don't talk about this retarded bs

Glenn, my point is that the violence is not self-contained nor caused in or by hip-hop. It's symtematic of the entire demographic.
It could be attacks over soul food restaurants, bootleg DVD sales, or crack rock sales on a particular block. But this guy and other guys in the rap game who are trying to play Tony Montana- they're fucking dumb, no doubt. But no more or less dumber than their "ethnic immigrant" predecessors.

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