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I know the Mel Kipers of the world think that all of the top OT will be gone by around 15, but I'm not so sure. - Nova.

Agree 100%.

I believe Otah at the very least will still be there at 19 and that they'd take him if efforts to move up failed.

However, I think that THEY think they gotta move up, what i was talkin bout late last wk- and that Im scared that they'll burn the "Lito" chip on slidin up 7 or 8 spots or so.

Even if not the Lito chip, givin up SOMETHIN to get up there in a draft that I dont think you NEED to slide anywhere to get a very good player.

Otah may be there and Cherilus almost certainly will, but the the premier guys (Long/Clady/Williams/Albert) will probably be gone.

It just depends, though. The thing that is killing me is if all those tackles go before the Eagles pick, that means a premier pick will be in their laps at #19 (probably at a need position) and I just want them to take that player (whoever it is).

Think about it...

Long, Long, Gholsten, Ryan, Dorsey, Mcfadden, McKelvin, Clady, Ellis, DRC, Albert, Harvey, Rivers, Mendenhall...those guys are mortal locks (IMO) to go before the Eagles pick. 14 guys.

That leaves Chris Williams, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, Otah, Devin Thomas, and Phillip Merling still on the board. That's 21 picks and I'd take any of them. Why trade up? They're retarded if they do it.

I saw somewhere that Merling's stock has fallen dramatically--he might be there when they pick in the 2nd round.

How much better are the "elite" guys this year--not much from everything I read.

If a good corner is there at 19--reid, et al. value that position so much, I could see them grabbing one in the 1st, but I'm thinking that this draft will be like the 03 draft, except instead of defensive backfield, they load up on O-line.

I think Merling is back on the rise, but was falling because he had a sports hernia operation.

He's definitely not someone I'm super-interested in, though.

I just can't see trading a pick (or Lito) for the chance at Williams over Tablib (or some scenario like that).

The big problem with drafting a corner is Lito has to be gone before you do it. I think you effectively toss our your last, tiny bit of leverage is you take a corner before dealing Lito.

I can't see the sense, other than financial, of trading Sheppard to get a CB. Trade a talented, if injured and cash hungry, CB to ink an unknown at a lower salary?

They should just let him play out this season and, if healthy, ink him to the deal he wants - send Brown to nickel or safety - and have that secondary locked tight for five more years.

Who's to say Samuel doesn't "bust" on them and they regret trading away Sheppard for Draft X?

I would like to take a second to crow about Devon Thomas and my mentioning him early in the process.

Self-involved moment over. Thank you gentlemen, please continue.

I'm not interested in trading Lito. That would make this team impossible to play against with that kind of secondary and it will not only help the line but covering some of the lost steps of Dawkins.

I can't see the sense, other than financial, of trading Sheppard to get a CB. Trade a talented, if injured and cash hungry, CB to ink an unknown at a lower salary?

That's the whole issue, though.

Lito wants a new deal and he's being patient right now, but there is absolutely no way they are going to give it to him. How far is he willing to go to be a pain in the ass? Do they want to find out?

That answer is definitively "no".

If Lito was healthy and willing to play under his contract, Samuel never would have been signed.

Agree with half that.

I think they lost interest if you will, last yr, in Lito.

The injuries being the main thing.

I think he sensed this and fearing for long term security (MAINLY COS HE KNOWS HE'S A LEGITIMATELY HURT OFTEN!) started pressin for the new deal/lettin it slip to a guy here, a guy there, that he's unhappy with the current deal.


I think that they made up their minds last yr durin the season that they'd explore finding a replacement for Lito.

FD- ask yourself this; if Asante woudlnt sign for what he did, and had an astronomical asking price, you think they (Birds) woulda met it?
No.
Lito's still your starting CB and they would just expect him like all their others, to play out his deal.

They havent shyed away from a player griping about a contract before and what makes ya think they'd have learned from the TO fiasco?
They were maintaing (still are publically tho talks are/were takin place now behind scenes) the same thing with Westy.


Its not financial that they move him, they accurately see that a 26 yr old Pro Bowl CB who is also a legit playmaker can add by subtraction to the team- by way of an add'l 2nd round pick, allowin em to move up, or GOD LISTEN PLEASE, secure a veteran Wide Reciever with a resume.

I think its wise to move him, provided you do 1 of the above 3 scenarios.

If they just run him outta here for a crummy 4th, then I think its a mistake, and woudl likely lend some credence to their possibly worrying about him being a distraction.

I dont think its in Lito's make up to be a big pain in the rear, FWIW, and I think thats workin against him as I believe they know he's a high character guy too.

I think the injuries played a role in it, but the Eagles made Samuel one of the top 2 or 3 highest paid corners in the game and never even entertained the option of trading Sheldon.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that he bitched about his contract and was immediately put him on the trade block. That's what they do with all non-essential players who pull that move (see Welborn, Darwin Walker, Hollis Thomas, Trotter, Simon, etc.).

They probably would have kept him and begged him to keep quiet, but injury alone didn't really factor in here. If that was their game, they could have very easily spent a high pick on an eventual replacement in the draft, right?

Plus, who have they actually made go to work on a contract they didn't like for any measure of time? Other than rookies anxious to get a long term deal or pending FA looking to re-up, I can think of only 2 players...T.O. and Tra Thomas. One destroyed the team and the other (remarkably, really) was a true professional.

Every other guy who has bitched about his contract gets dealt. Westbrook, being critical to the team, will not.

I do think they are willing to play with Lito this year, but they are scared to death of it.

I don't think that they're really frightened of keeping Lito. Brown never seemed like a tradeable commodity because he has no pro bowls on his resume, nor is he as flashy a player (fewer big play interceptions, etc).
Nevertheless, Brown is far more consistent, and in most regards, a better cover corner than Sheppard. Brown's only real failing is that Plexico Burress seems to be his kryptonite.
Hence, the Eagles have the best of both worlds. They can shop their 'former #1' corner, who's not quite as good as the #2, injury-prone, and purportedly unhappy with his contract to boot, while keeping a proven commodity in Brown.
Personally, I wouldn't deal unless I was getting mega-value. Sheppard, at his best, is phenomenal, and making him the nickel gives you the best defensive backfield in football, hands-down. Unless you're getting serious return on your investment (mid-early 1st rounder or a proven low age veteran like Roy Williams/Jared Allen), why let him go? He's a former first rounder, a two time pro bowler, and still young. Just because there are potentially good corners in the first round doesn't mean you give away one that you know is good already.

BTW, if Lito would shut up and play I'd be absolutely okay with him staying and starting.

I like Lito when he's healthy and don't want him dealt for nothing.

Unless you're getting serious return on your investment (mid-early 1st rounder or a proven low age veteran like Roy Williams/Jared Allen), why let him go? He's a former first rounder, a two time pro bowler, and still young. Just because there are potentially good corners in the first round doesn't mean you give away one that you know is good already.

It's all a big circular argument. His value is nowhere near that high in trade for the same reasons the Eagles signed Samuels to replace him. He's hurt quite a bit and he wants a new deal.

Deangelo Hall is never hurt, he's bigger, and he's younger...he went for a 2nd rounder. That's the absolute top end of what you could hope to get for Lito.

Except Hall's not as good as Lito.

And I wanted to address this point, cos the timing is key:

"I just don't think it's a coincidence that he bitched about his contract and was immediately put him on the trade block. That's what they do with all non-essential players who pull that move (see Welborn, Darwin Walker, Hollis Thomas, Trotter, Simon, etc.). "


While the latter is true, what accompanies those players paved road (save Trot's 2nd dismissal) is a smear campaign in 1 way or another.

No smear campaign here with Lito.

The injuries are too frequent, period.

Also, nobody knew he 'bitched bout the deal' until this offseason, as F.Agency approached and certain people who are closer to Big Red stated it matter of factly- Eskin 1st, Gargano and Sheridan next....only after that was dropped (By Eskin on Sports Final) did you read Bowen's article on the eve of F.A. saying it as if he was aware of it too. Dunno if he did, but why not write it last yr unless they promised to keep it off the record, which Im fine with.

When King leaked that they'd persue Samuel, then it began about Sheppard being "known to be unhappy".

You never (Not YOU - FD, "You" as in anyone) heard about him bein an issue in the lockerroom last yr. Quite the opposite. Even while injured, always made appearances on TV and radio, always smiling and never using a mic in his face to insinuate his displeasure.

Ah, from the pen of Spuds....I wont bother interpreting for you guys- you're all intelligent men...



"PACKAGE PICKS AND MOVE UP

Reid has never been shy about taking this approach, but to do so would cost the Eagles their first-round pick, a second-round pick and probably a fourth-rounder. Or, as many fans have suggested, the Eagles could send a player and the 19th pick to a team in the top 10-13 and draft … who, exactly?

I'm not enough of a draft aficionado to offer a suggestion on the "must-have" player. I will say that if the Eagles put together a package and go up in the first round, they expect the draft pick to step in and contribute right away in the 2008 season. Maybe not as an immediate starter, but certainly as a player who can help win as a rookie.

If the Eagles are willing to pay a steep price to go up and get one of the top 10 picks who is "falling," or to go get the player they must have, it is reasonable to think he can play as a rookie."

That would imply they aren't taking an o-lineman if they move up, but I don't think Spuds knows anything.

In fact, if he did know anything, this would be subterfuge.

No smear campaign here with Lito.

Dude, they're trying to trade him. They aren't going to smear him while they're trying to sell him in trade. They smear people trying to get their "money" contract, but smearing him now would be out of their character and just plain dumb.

The injuries are a big part of it, but they never would have signed Samuel if not for him making it clear he wanted a new deal they definitely weren't willing to pay.

Far as Hall and Lito go, isn't it moot? Hall is more valuable in trade (obviously) because of the health, he's 2 years younger, he's got a better frame, and he makes just as many plays. Whether Lito, 100% healthy and at his best, is better than Hall doesn't really matter because of all the other mitigating factors.

I'd say that Lito and Hall are about equal in terms of talent, the injury thing is the issue here.

2nd round pick is the best case scenario.

In terms of the Spuds thing--he doesn't know anything. Anyone with a modicum of NFL knowledge knows that the Eagles could get to the top 10 if they packaged Sheppard plus 19. The point is, they don't have to. I also find it funny that he thinks that if they move up, they'll get a player who will contribute right away---what a joke.

I was thinking that the Eagles could be patient, and move Lito on draft day for a high pick next year. They could possibly get a first-rounder if a team felt desperate and needed a CB to send them over the top. Or perhaps a conditional pick that would start as a 2nd round pick but could become a 1st if he starts all 16 games, makes the pro bowl, etc.

NEW TRADE CHART AN EFFORT BY EAGLES TO MOVE UP?
Posted by Mike Florio on April 18, 2008, 9:34 p.m.
In response to the emergence of a new proposed trade chart, a league source tells us that, in his opinion and based on discussions with most of the other NFL teams, the proposal is the direct result of the Philadelphia Eagles to make it easier to trade up from the No. 19 overall spot in the 2008 draft.

“The whole thing sounds like an elaborate ruse,” the source said.

It’s not clear who the Eagles would be targeting via a move, or how high they’d like to go. If the Eagles are indeed behind the creation of the new chart, the fact that the first four picks dropped in value and the rest of the first-rounders increased suggests that they’d like to get into the top four — and possibly all the way to No. 1.

Moreover, if the Eagles are trying to pull off a move up, there’s only one other team that needs to agree with the chart, and that’s the team with whom the Eagles would be trading.

Besides, the reality is that, if a team that wants to trade down can’t find a partner under the existing trade chart, then maybe a new chart really is needed.

Or why shouldn’t both teams say “the hell with the chart,” if they so choose? The pick is worth whatever the team who’ll trade it thinks it worth. Does anyone really think that the Tuna gives a flying fish about whether he’ll be criticized from taking less than what the Jimmy Johnson trade chart dictates he should receive?

Regardless, the suspicion that is being directed at the Eagles confirms our belief that any meaningful change to the trade chart can come only after the draft and before the start of the regular season, since during that period of time no team can be accused of trying to stack the deck in support of its own short-term interests.

That's a solid point. If no one's really trading for the top picks based on the previous chart, how useful is it? A number of teams would like to get out of the big contracts and build, but they don't want to be laughingstocks for giving the pick away for less than "the chart" indicates. On the other hand, teams lower don't want to be known as the modern day Vikings (a la Walker).

I proposed it earlier, but I think teams in the top five should be able to "sell" their top pick back to the league for a set of lower, end of round draft picks. The contract figures for the other picks in the top 5 or so stay the same (thus, a #2 doesn't suddenly get paid as a #1 just because Miami wants to rebuild).

It lets bottom feeders do serious rebuilding if no one's interested in buying their pick. It can slow salary inflation. It has only a marginal effect on the rookie contracts, since only the top five slots could be effected.

That's a pretty crazy rumor, but one that would give it a tiny bit of credence is Banner coming out last week and talking about the new chart in the paper.

Still seems far-fetched, though. I can't even imagine who they would want in the top 5. Chris Long, maybe? It isn't Matt Ryan or Glenn Dorsey. It probably isn't Jake Long, given he's looking like #1 right now. It could be Gholsten, but he just doesn't seem like their type of player (despite his fast balliness).

Oh well...seems like the Eagles are definitely planning on being active on draft day with all this "smoke".

I proposed it earlier, but I think teams in the top five should be able to "sell" their top pick back to the league for a set of lower, end of round draft picks.

I don't like this b/c it affects all other teams' picks.

I think some kind of slotted salary system would be beneficial. That would eliminate the need for any other measures if they could et is passed.

That is the best answer. I mean, with NC's way, what happens with the next team in line doesn't want the number one pick? Do they get to move down as well?

Last nt. I watched Sports Final and thru the John Clarke suffering (or "JC" as he refers to himself- ugh, and whats with those HANDS! GOOD LORD!) I was VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY happy to hear Eskin put the odds at the Birds taking Kenny Phillips, S, The U- at 70%!

Wow.
That would be my ideal scenario. Though he said they may move up to accomplish this and I dont know if thats necessary (could be).

He had the odds at a WR in rd 1 at ZERO, and the odds for an OT at I believe at just 10% and same for the CB (Sorry Nova).

I would be very happy with Phillips in rd.1 and a nice return on the Lito investment in day 1.

That and an attentive waitress who checks on our table(s) constantly to keep up with the demand.

I heard about that and I wouldn't be upset with Phillips at all, but I'm a little concerned with some of the stuff people have been saying about him game lately. I do like him, though.

One thought I had is if this came from Eskin...what are the odds this is a potential smokescreen? I consider him on par with Spuds in terms on their objectives in the media when it comes to the Eagles and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's doing his buddy a favor by helping to create more public confusion.

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