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No, I know what you're saying Johnson. I just think that the Eagles are trying to build a Giants-like line using Eagles-like players.

They have a TON invested in small, quick DTs who haven't been able to get to the QB with that much frequency. I don't think Laws helps them a great deal because taking Patteron or Bunkley off the field to insert a Patterson clone doesn't really help the fastballs that much, does it?

Second, they went WAY over the top with the fastballs (IMO). They have Parker, who is a pure fastball. They added Clemons, who is a pure fastball. They drafted 25 year old Bryan whatever his name is, who is a 220 pound pure fastball. They added Studebaker at the end of the draft, who is another fastball if he even plays end.

If Cole gets hurt at any point this year, the Eagles are right back where they were before...teams are going to just pound their undersized front 4 into oblivion.

If Cole stays healthy and Abiamiri (front runner for opening day starter) makes the leap, they'll be fine. If Abiamiri doesn't have it or Cole gets hurt, they are in deep, deep trouble.

Before I get into the actual draft- meannig players obtained;

About the Panthers deal-
I like it. I think that they were full well committed to making a pick there at 19 that none of you woulda been thrilled with (Otah) and then as Reid stated yesterday- Carolina called while they were on the clock with an offer that they were right to take.
They fleeced the Panthers. Period.

At the table, I felt "Ok, this has to be a deal now - today- for a WR, give em Lito and a No.1 next yr and close shop".

Didnt happen so it did lessen my enthusiasm somewhat.

But if they hold that pick- I think Carolina could easily be in the top 10 to 12 of the 1st round next yr. Even if it isnt- TWO first rounders headin in is a nice luxury.

They said all along that they werent high on this draft class (as MANY experts agreed). Why not move out of rd1 , just cos you did last yr?

Angelo I understand was railing against the draft this am.
And he wouldnt have been had they selected Otah?
Come on.
Its predictable shctick.


After givin up on a Lito deal yesterday I began to think that Lito will still be dealt.

He was quoted late last wk. talking as if he wanted to know where he was ending up and looking forward to Draft Wknd like he was bein drafted all over again.
That means Philly told him to expect to be dealt.

At this point, Im kinda givin up on Boldin or Williams and thinking that maybe as things worsen in Cincy- and they will- that this summer CJ could end up here in exchange for (too much IMO but hey-) Sheppard and 1 of their No.1's next season (preferably the Eagle's pick as I think it'll be a lot lower in the rd than the Panthers).

I just dont see them re-doing Litos deal, and cant fathom a way to get em all on the field and playing without ego fueled incident on either Lito's or Brown's part.

And yet, they'll be crowing about depth before September.

BTW, how did the Giants do against the run last year?

I just dont see them re-doing Litos deal, and cant fathom a way to get em all on the field and playing without ego fueled incident on either Lito's or Brown's part.

On Hugh's "show" with RC (worth listening to only because it doesn't take itself seriously.....or maybe it does), he mentioned that Lito probably won't be participating in any of the mini-camps and what-not. Knowing how futile a move like this is, does that hurt Lito?

And we still haven't gone into restructuring BWest's deal, which would piss off one of the two parties.

And considering how the past 2 years have gone, is anyone confident that they'll use their 1st rounders next year on players instead of trading down for lesser (talent and $$) players? Time will tell, right?

And considering how the past 2 years have gone, is anyone confident that they'll use their 1st rounders next year on players instead of trading down for lesser (talent and $$) players? Time will tell, right? - Bass


I guess it depends on how good of a class it is, and if anyone calls with a 'cant turn down' deal, now doesnt it?

One thing's for certain - no one can say it was bad for them to trade out of the 1st round with Carolina, especially for what they got in return. Unless Otah ends up being an All-World OL, and even then it's hard to tell.

Was more surprised that they ended up trading Carolina's 2nd round pick, which was higher than theirs.

I dont get why everyone is writing jackson off immediately. By the time the season starts, my guess is he will be around 180. He has the same measurables as steve smith, but is faster and had a much more successful NCAA career. The guy was they best returner in NCAA and had some of his biggest games against the top school (Tenn, USC, UCLA).

He may need some time to develop, but seriously, the cat can play football and has incredible instincts. In the open field, he is by far, the best WR in the draft. His hand are fine. Before the "Combine Crunchers" over analyzed the numbers, he was considered one of the top 2 WR in the draft, in a draft class loaded with WR (more than any this decade, per rotoworld.) Any WR they would have gotten, wouldn't have the opportunity to help the team as immediately as Desean. The eagles will put in reverses, WR screens and go routes right away.

I honestly think it is a steal in the late 2nd round.

Take away the Draft hype. Objectively look at the highlight reel from Jackson, Thomas and Hardy (or Kelly) and tell me who you think impresses the most. And would have the opportunity to help right away.

Add that to the fact that I still think they are going to make a run at the bigger VET WR and the chances of them landing Chad Johnson increased exponentially. The redskins are out of the chase. That leaves the Cowboys and the birds and the iggles have more ammunition (lito/2 1st rd).

Now the other draft picks from rounds 3-7 are a different sorry. Really, nobody knows shit about the success or failure of these kids until at least November. The eagles are very good at finding players in the later rounds and have earned some patience from us in this regard.

Anyone who has watched ND games this year knows about Laws. An instant Upgrade at the 3rd tackle spot. In the last half of the second round, I am not sure that is a bad deal.

When you think about it....they got a '09 draft pick that WILL BE IN THE TOP 10, a second round pick, two fourth rounders and walked away with 2 guys that will help immediately.

This draft will ultimately be defined by how the players turn out, obviously. I just don't now if they picked wisely even though they got value.

I mean, if Demps pans out it pretty much removes the questions about why they passed on the top 2 safeties, Phillips and Morgan.

The biggest WTF pick for me was in round 3. Bryan Smith, 230 pound, 25 year old DE from McNeese St.

I mean, he was the 15 ranked outside LB on nfldraftcountdown.com (which I know is a bit of a low-end stab at draft evaluation). But, the question will be: Is the 30th (or so) ranked pass rusher slated to be your 5th option at DE better for your team than the 2nd ranked Safety, a position with no guarantees at starter and no option of the future at the position on your roster (at that point in the draft)?

He's just a bit of a head scratcher. Old, undersized, played against inferior competition, and at a position of depth. If he fails you can't say "Well, he was the best guy on the board", because he wasn't.

This team is addicted to fastballs.

Do they have any 4 down DEs? Abiramiri is the closest thing to that, but he is a question mark, IMO. Juqua played well last year, but he is nothing more than an average starter.

Is there strategy to draft 7 or 8 fastballs in the hope that 2-3 of them will be productive and make the team?

This D-line ain't scaring anyone next year--F-D hit it on the nose--they are using a Giants philosophy, using Eagles-type talent.

Trent Cole is a good pass rusher and has improved against the run, but he is undersized and can get worn down. Heckert already said that Clemons is going to be a situational pass-rusher. The DE they took in the third is smaller than the quarterback.

Don't even get me started on the Jake Igonnastealanx-boxiguano pick. Everyone wants to applaud the fact that they fleeced Carolina and got extra picks--if this is what they are going to use those picks for, what is the point? They would be better off drafting another fastball--at least he can be training camp fodder. This kid has no shot to play this year and might be in jail by the time the 2009-2010 season rolls around. I love picks like this--a real gem.

I can hear Andy's press conference now: "Ahem, we are really excited to get a guy like Jake here ahem. Ahem, we saw him falling to us and we couldn't beleive ahem that we would have a chance to get a player that we had graded as a 1st round type of talent ahem. I'm not going to get into the character ahem issues, but we feel strongly that Jake is a heckuva football player and after he finishes his ahem rehab ahem we're thinking he can step right in there and compete with Joselio Hanson for the dime corner back spot. Time's Yours"

Oh, and packaging 2 1st rounders for CJ is a joke and a half. It will never happen. Carolina will finish 8-8, have a pick somewhere in the 14-21 area, right where the birds will pick. They'll take those picks, move up to the 10 spot and take another fastball D fucking tackle. In the words of 736--Book it.

No one can know for sure, but the tackle from Ole Miss is a natural LT, will be 22 this time next year, has good character, and will have started soemthing like 46 games. A lot can happen between now and then and everyone knows the famous busts who were "can't miss" prospects. I think this kid's a natural fit for what the Eagles will need next season.

Jackson late in the second was a good pick. The Eagles special teams need serious attention. Picking up free agents to help with coverage and returns and drafting Jackson should improve the production. For a late second round pick, getting a solid return man who can do slot work is defensible.

Take away the Draft hype. Objectively look at the highlight reel from Jackson, Thomas and Hardy (or Kelly) and tell me who you think impresses the most. And would have the opportunity to help right away.

I'm not writing off Jackson by any means, but looking at the highlight reel isn't always the best way to evaluate a guy.

If you think Jackson will succeed, you probably believe he'll be one of the top punt returns in the NFL from day 1, he'll be the instant deep threat they haven't had as one of the fasted players in football, and his size won't be an issue because he can bulk up in the weight room...build a "Steve Smith" body.

If you think he'll fail, you think he is too East/west and not enough north/south in the return game. You probably think that, as the smallest player in the NFL, he'll have difficulty holding up to the punishment. You might think that even the great Steve Smith is also constantly hurt. You might think he's too slight to ever really be more than a situational player. You might even mention that Jackson was the second most productive WR on his own team last year.

For me...it's wait and see. I've been back and forth on Jackson all year. I think he's a boom/bust guy and honestly am not leaning one way or another. he was a good value where they got him, but I can't make a prediction on him.

Telling quote from FB:

"These three, barring injury or doing something I wouldn't expect them to do, I think they could come in and help us win some games this year."

Winning the Super Bowl is not the goal. Winning a couple games is the goal. No talk of these guys putting us 'over the top' or 'filling some holes', just helping us win some games.

Looking forward to another year of our WRs getting their asses kicked on the line.

Jules said it best. 9 years of this shit, for fucks sake.

DeSean's combine photo---notice Joe Banner in the back?

As for the picks:

Laws- I liked this pick as I think they'll be able to keep the DTs fresh by havin this kid to put in over a Montae Reagor or even Ramsey. I think they're set at DT and if they take another DT in the top 2 rounds next year, then you'll hear me biatch.

REALLY LIKE Jackson for WHERE they landed him. Huge value/potential. WHile I woudlnt have wanted him at his size in rd1, to nab him 30 picks later Im more than fine with. I think he will be a diference maker in yr1.

The next one I can point to that I am more than just 'happy' with is Demps. I liked him and if I couldnt have Phillips, which became apparent- I had this cat on the radar for day two. Even mentioned him in a post in this thread prior to the pick being made. Was happy when they tabbed him. I realize the open field tackling isnt the greatest- but learning from Dawkins in his rookie year, playin STs etc cant hurt. Its a risk in that his tackling is somewhat suspect, but I liked the pick for where they got him and think he COULD fill a hole at Safety. I'll take him right now over Considine.

McGlyn the OL from Pitt i think represents very good value in that he can play anywhere on the OL and has a mean streak that Ried often has cited as a characteristic of Runyans' that he likes a lot. This was the guy Scotty and I were discussing Saturday and thought would be a good day 2 value.

The rest, I honestly cannot offer any sorta insight on as to whether I wanted them pre-draft or could speak to now as being a future bust or potential steal.
Just wait and see. More cuts than 'makes' I fear, but when you pull 10 guys outta a 7 round draft anymore, well, you'll have that.

The gimp who likes to take what doesnt belong to me had me crackin up. That pick, let alone where they took him?
Interesting to say the least. Ive actually read some positive reviews of that pick as a potential steal, no pun intended.

The DE who is aproximately my size is a joke given the history here with 'tweeners'. However, Trent Cole has put on between 25 and 30 lbs since being drafted so perhaps thats the hope here.
WHo knows. Like I said, wait and see on these cats- but everything I had in front of me yesterday (and I had quite the nerdroom goin for the bulk of the day yesterday) had this cat goin a good 2 rounds lower than the third. Some 4th projections for a 3-4, but anyway.

The thing i find to be the 'gravy' here is Booker.
I said it yesterday but I think they have addressed RB2 here- and the fact he presents similar matchup issues for teams as does 36, they can stay in their sets/offense and run the same stuff.
I'd love to see them get creative and put both on the field at the same time but I think Im just hoping against hope here. He's likely just a back up RB. I think they'd have taken him over Hunt had he not gone aprox. 20 picks sooner than he did last yr.

Regarding the Old Miss kid....Michael Oher was the subject in one of the best books written about Football. "The Blind Side".

Forgot about Booker. Plain and simple, Westy Insurane. What Ryan Moats should have been. Very happy about that move, very concerned for my boy hunt.

Oh, and packaging 2 1st rounders for CJ is a joke and a half. - Nova


If you're speaking to what I wrote, unsure here- I dont think that woudl happen either.


I think they would be overpaying if they dealt Lito and a No.1, but that it may shake out that way- in part based on not being able to have Lito on the team.

Cataldi was ripping the trade this morning, of what little I heard in my 10 minute commute when XPN and 950 were on commercial. But that alone should have you guys beaming with joy over the move.

Cataldi was ripping the trade this morning, of what little I heard in my 10 minute commute when XPN and 950 were on commercial. But that alone should have you guys beaming with joy over the move.

Yeah...I can't imagine a scenario this year where Cataldi does anything this morning but stir up the trailer park.

Per Peter King...Philly had the third best draft in the League, behind KC and Miami...

2. Philadelphia. The Eagles always ask for too much in trade. Always. They couldn't get rid of Lito Sheppard last weekend, but that was primarily because Sheppard, who gets hurt too much, wants a new contract even though he has four years left on his current one. But the Eagles were able to auction off the 19th pick in the draft for a mind-boggling sum, which they got from Carolina -- second- and fourth-round picks this year and the Panthers' first-round pick next year.

On the draft-trade chart, the 19th-overall pick is worth 875 points. If you assign Carolina an average 2008 season and give them the 16th pick in the first round next year, this trade will be worth 1,546 points on the trade chart -- almost double what the 19th pick is worth. In terms of real additions this year, DeSean Jackson as a receiver/returner with the 49th pick is excellent value.

Yeah Seth, that is what I was referring to with the CJ thing.

Chad isn't going to get moved b/c of the cap-implication, so it is a moot point anyway.

With the addition of Booker, I think Tony Hunt should start applying for his sandwich artist license--maybe he could make crab fries with Reno.

But I didnt suggest that he's moved for both 1sts.

And i never implied a cap situation either.

I said 'as things worsen in Cincy- and they will' as in getting no return on a guy who has value and is sitting out, and not quietly, he could be moved unless they REALLY wanna be stubborn (and I'd applaud them for that).

I listened a little bit this morning, the only time I do is the day after a game or the draft.

They just kept harping on the fact that the Eagles felt there was nobody at 19 that could come in and help the team. Even the mighty Ray Didinger was saying he thought they should have taken a RB, not even mentioning the Lorenzo Booker trade. It seems a lot of folks are just overlooking that. I typically like Didinger and often agree with him, but not today.

Cataldi would have been bitching if they sat there and took an OL.

Of course they had Eckel on later and he just fuels their fire.

Why does everybody think the 3rd rounder (Bryan Smith) is lining up along the defensive line? I figured he was another Gocong DE convert to LB project (which still doesn't make sense to me in the 3rd round). If they try to use that dude as a situational pass rusher I might wet myself from laughing.

I think in the Eagles case they believe a solid DT rotation will assist their DEs (i.e. fastballs). Who knows for sure, but Big Red himself.

Compared to Reid's size and speed, a slightly-nudged dumpster on wheels still counts as a "fastball."

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