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If the Eagles had no glaring need, why did they try to outbid the Patriots for Randy Moss?

BTW, the NFL is trying to adopt a new draft day trade chart. The trick is there has to be a consensus among teams trading because the values of picks would be dramatically different (especially at the top) to reflect the burden those salaries place on a team.

Basically, anyone at the top of the draft who would like to trade down should be against using the new chart.

I've heard is mentioned by a few NFL guys, including Joe Banner in an article this morning (he said he's for it). PFT claims this is the chart, though I can't confirm that it is (obviously):

New Draft Day Trade Chart

Here's the old chart:
Existing/Old Draft Day Trade Chart

There's no glaring need for a team that had to make a late-season run to finish 8-8.

Everything's a freakin' secret, which would work out had they actually won something.

Well, Malcolm Kelly held a second pro day yesterday on the astroturf. He apologized to his rant after the last one and performed well in drills just like the first one, but he ran 4.63, 4.68.

I like Kelly, but I don't see how he goes in the first round now. This draft is really deep and I don't know how a GM could take a 4.6/4.7 WR with so many other more bankable players on the board. I WOULD like him for the Birds in the 2nd round, though.
click here

F-dallas Mock Draft V2 (more useless and descriptive this time):

F-dallas Mock Draft

1. Dolphins - DE Chris long
- I think the Phins are going to shop this pick and Chris Long will be the guy most willing to take a lower offer to be #1.

2. Rams - OT Jake Long
- I think the Rams could go a lot of different places here, but their O-line was just so bad that I think they have to take Long at this spot.

3. Falcons - DT Glenn Dorsey
- Some think he's the best player in this draft and he fills a need at a critical position for the Falcons and their new coach, former Jags coordinator Mike Smith.

4. Raiders - DE Vernon Gholston
- They will probably be tempted by McFadden here, but Gholsten could be a force combined with their potentially great secondary and Derrick Burgess. Burgess is also jockeying for a new deal, so Gholsten provides insurance.

5. Ravens (from Chiefs for 8th overall pick plus 2009 2nd round selection)- QB Matt Ryan
- I think Harbaugh wants a franchise QB in place to build around and he might be sold on Ryan. If the Chiefs convince the Ravens Ryan is their man if they stay at 5, they may be able to sell that pick to Ozzie Newsome in a win/win. The chiefs can still get the OT they desperately need and they pick up a 2nd rounder in 2009. I think Herm Edwards doesn't want to spend another year on a developmental QB with his job potentially on the line.

6. Bengals (from Jets) - RB Darren McFadden
- The Jets could take McFadden here, but they have one of the league’s best returners in Leon Washinton (which limits one advantage of taking McFadden) and taking a RB so high is always a risk. The Bengals and Jets pull off the first shocker of the draft when Cincy trades it’s 9th overall, its 46th overall pick in the second round, and its 77th overall pick in the third round in exchange for the 6th overall pick this year and Dewayne Roberstson from the Jets. The Bengals get the DT they need, they get a playmaker in McFadden out of their first 3 picks. Not bad. Plus, they have a trading piece in Chad Johnson (to get a second round pick back) and they had an extra 3rd round pick to begin with.

7. Pats - CB Leodis McKelvin
- Nothing changes for the Pats here. They could get cute and make a deal, but with a massive hole at CB and no D-linemen that fit their body type requirements here, they stick with McKelvin. His added value as a returner doesn’t help the Pats as much as it would most teams, but it’s extra depth.

8. Chiefs (from Ravens) - OT Ryan Clady
- The Chiefs take the guy they wanted all along in Clady and just get an extra pick their trouble.

9. Jets (from Bengals) - CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
- Another surprise pick of sorts, but this gives them the most promising young CB duo in the game with DRC and Revis. They could go with a guy like Brandon Albert or even Mendenhall, but neither present as much upside for the Jets as their new CB.

10. Saints – DT Sedrick Ellis
- The Saints luck out here because they are dying for a DT and they figured there was no chance Ellis would make it past the Bengals. They get to sit right where they are and their player they were hoping for falls right into their lap, much like Bunkley to the Eagles in 2006. Ellis gives them a good DT to stick in front of Vilma as they revamp their D.

11. Bills - WR Devin Thomas
- The pick here stays the same. His size and speed give him the best upside among WRs, his kick returning skills gives him versatility, and the Bills aren’t afraid to reach for the player they want.

12. Broncos - OT Brandon Albert
- The Broncos seriously consider Chris Williams, Derrick Harvey, and even Mendenhall here, but ultimately take the guy who could fill multiple positions on the line if called to do so (including LT or Guard).

13. Panthers - DE Derrick Harvey
- The Panthers need a DE opposite Peppers and Harvey is just sitting there for him. It makes too much sense not to happen.

14. Bears - RB Rashard Mendenhall
- Same goes for the Bears with Mendenhall. This offense is missing a RB and while it will sting to take another one in the first round, a good one could get their offense back on track.

15. Lions - LB Keith Rivers
- The Lions stick with Rivers because he’s the best value on the board here and he can be a force paired with Ernie Simms.

16. Cardinals - CB Mike Jenkins
- With Mike Jenkins sitting here, the Cards would be foolish to pass him up. He solidifies their secondary and can return kicks.

17. Vikings - DE Phillip Merling
- For the Vikes, it’s all about value and needs. They need a DE and a good one is sitting there. Merling is also able to move inside as a DT on nickel, which makes the Reid protégé Childress cream his pants with joy.

18. Texans – OT Chris Williams
- They need a CB and an OT desperately. Ultimately they decide protecting Schaub is just too important to pass on the potential franchise LT Williams and go with him here.

19. Eagles - CB Aqib Talib
- The Eagles would have liked Williams, but their second target Talib slides to them. This pick probably can’t be made before working out a deal for Lito, but they already have (we’ll find out below). The Eagles get the best playmaking CB in the draft to play nickel this year and step in for Sheldon at some point in the future.

20. Buccaneers - TE Dustin Keller
- Some will call it a reach, but keller gives them a vertical threat from the TE position…one Jeff Garcia will able to use from day one. He’s a better bet than any of the WRs on the board right now and there isn’t a RB Gruden is willing to take with this pick as insurance for Cadillac.

21. Redskins - S Kenny Phillips
- They’d rather go D-line here, but they need a safety to replace Taylor and Phillips fits the bill. He can play either side opposite Landry and is versatile enough to play deep or play in the box.

22. Cowboys - WR Desean Jackson
- The Cowboys need a vertical threat and Jackson might be the fastest WR in the draft. Adding a weapon on special teams is another plus and his size isn’t a concern because they have plenty of the physicality they need in Owens and Witten.

23. Steelers – DE/LB Quentin Groves
- Groves could be an electric player off the edge, but his size is a concern. Insert the Steelers who can put him on the outside in their 3-4 and use him like Ware or Merriman. The Steelers get the potential impact edge rusher that’s been missing from their D for a couple years.

24. Titans - WR Limas Sweed
- This is another one that makes sense. Vince young needs a big target at WR, so why not reunite him with the guy he knows inside and out from Texas?

25. Seahwaks - RB Jonathon Stewart
- Tired of Alexander pussyfooting his way through the whole, they opt for his diametric opposite…the local thumper who can add a physical element to their finesse offense and improve them from day 1.

26. Jaguars - DE Calais Campbell
- The Jags are in need of a DE and they are in love with big bodies, so the 6’8” 290 lb Campbell fits the bill here.

27. Chargers – OT Jeff Otah
- He fell a lot further than most people thought and they can play him on the right side OR at guard. He’s a great value pick here for a team without any pressing needs.

28. Cowboys - RB Felix Jones
- Jones gets his Arkansas boy here and Jones will add the lightening to Marion Barber’s thunder.

29. 49ers - OT Gosder Cherilus
- They need to protect the QB first and foremost, so they take the best OL left on the board.

30. Packers – TE Fred Davis
- Another one who might be considered a bit of a reach, but they feel good about their defense, RB, and WR situations. They won’t take a QB this high and they have a need at TE. They may try to trade out of this pick for a team who wants to trade back up for a guy like Flacco or Brohm, but no one bites knowing those players will be on the board later.

31. Giants - LB Jared Mayo
- Mayo can fill the need the Giants have at LB and play from day one, so the fit is natural here given what’s available.



Round 2

32. Dolphins - CB Antoine Cason
- The Phins stick with D on their second pick, taking Cason in an effort to upgrade their secondary. He’s a high character guy and the kind Parcells might like to have on his team.

33. Eagles (from Rams) – WR Malcolm Kelly
- The Eagles their first big move of the day dealing their 49th overall pick and Lito Sheppard to the Rams for their 33rd overall pick and their 65th overall pick (first pick in the round. The Eagles jump up to grab Malcolm Kelly - a top 10 pick just a couple months ago – and give McNabb a WR big enough to catch his passes. Kelly drops because he didn’t run well, but all his other measurables and skills were solid and his value is too good to pass up here. The Rams, in return, get a starting CB and retain a pick later in the second round (essentially losing a 3rd round pick and a few draft spots for Lito).

34. Falcons - QB Brian Brohm
- They need a QB to execute their offense and the organization has probably been scouting Brohm for over a year now.

35. Chiefs – QB Joe Flacco
- Herm won’t love this pick because he has to win now, but Peterson has to think of his job, too. Flacco could end up starting this year and Brodie Croyle is no safe bet by any stretch.

36. Jets - LB Dan Connor
- The Jets picked up DRC in the first round and they attempt to get their version of Bruschi in the second round. After trading Vilma, they need an inside backer made for the 3-4 and Connor is a great fit and value here.

37. Falcons – CB Patrick Lee
- Having fallen into Dorsey in round one, addresses QB with their first pick in round 2, and no need at DE (with Jamal Anderson and Abraham), they take the best CB left on the board to beef up their secondary. Auburn prospect generally fair well in the NFL and might start right away.

38. Ravens - CB/S Reggie Smith
- The Ravens are a little old in the secondary and Reggie Smith gives them a lot of versatility. He might be able to play CB or safety for them and he can play nickel right away while being a core special teams player.

39. 49ers – WR Earl Bennett
- The 49ers go with Earl Bennett, the shifty WR from Vandy. They are in need of help on the outside and his RAC ability would add to their offense tremendously.

40. Saints - TE John Carlson
- Carlson is their man here. They have a need at TE and with Carlson’s size, he’ll be a great outlet for Brees in the middle of the field.

41. Bills - DT Trevor Laws
- Another great value pick. Laws steps in and starts on day one in a spot where the Bills could need some help.

42. Broncos - LB Curtis Lofton
- The Broncos want to move DJ Williams back to the weak side and Lofton, the big MLB from Oklahoma ends up right there with Bennett (Cutler’s college teammate) already off the board.

43. Panthers - DT Kentwan Balmer
- The Panthers go D again with the UNC alum, Balmer. They moved Kris Jenkins and they know their defense has struggled because their line isn’t the dominant force it once was. The combo of Balmer and Harvey give them a huge boost.

44. Bears – QB Chad Henne
- They have needs all over the place but without a QB or QB of future, Henne (who is rising fast according to many “experts”) is the pick here.

45. Lions - DE Lawrence Jackson
- Lawrence Jackson makes a lot of sense for the Lions, so no need to mess with it. He’s a better player than most think and he could help their defense.

46. Jets (from Bengals)- WR James Hardy
- Pretty good value and while they still need a QB, Hardy’s tremendous size will help breakup the smurf brigade in NY. Coles is unhappy with his deal and neither Coles nor Cotchery are going to help in the red zone very much, so Hardy gives them the big chain mover and red zone threat they haven’t had since Keyshawn. After going defense with their first 2 picks, Hardy adds to their O.

47. Vikings - TE Martellus Bennett
- They have a solid defense and added a pass rusher in the first round. They signed Berrian in the off-season. TE still seems to be a hole for them and you know Childress would like to use one more frequently. Bennett is a guy who could be a vertical threat on the turf and add to the weaponry on offense. I think they give Tavaris Jackson one more year with a good D and weapons around him to see if he could be their guy before burning another first day pick on a QB.

48. Eagles - (from Falcons) – S Dujuan Morgan
- The Falcons have already addressed QB of the future, Franchise DT, and CB with their first 3 picks on the first day. They still have plenty of holes to fill may go with Morgan on this pick. The Eagles (trying to consolidate picks) decide to jump up and make a deal. The Birds ship their 3rd round pick (80th overall) and the third rounder they acquired from the Rams (65th overall) for the Falcons 48th overall pick in the second round and their 5th round pick (138 overall). Morgan starts on day one and is drafted to be the heir apparent for Dawk.

49. Rams (from Eagles) - OG Chilo Rachal
- They hate to go O-line with their first picks, but by the same token, they need to. If they come out of the first day with a starting tackle, guard, and CB they should be happy. They may think about a WR here, though.

50. Cardinals - OT Carl Nicks
- Nicks adds another big body to their line and he can potentially play anywhere. Smart pick for the Cards at this point in the draft.

51. Redskins - WR Early Doucet
- They would have liked to get one of the bigger bodies, but Doucet can play big and give them a different element to their passing game.

52. Buccaneers - RB Chris Johnson
- With question marks at RB, Gruden is thrilled when this year’s version of say…Charlie Garner…slides to him in the second round. He would probably consider CB or even WR here, but Chris Johnson gives Gruden the kind of weapon he can excel with.

53. Steelers - OT Sam Baker
- The Steelers don’t have any pressing, pressing needs and addressed defense with their first pick, so they can get value here with o-line.

54. Titans - LB Erin Henderson
- Bullock isn’t getting any younger and Henerson gives them a player they can start right away, while grooming him for the future.

55. Seahwaks - WR Mario Maningham
- The Seahawks need an outside threat and despite his poor 40 times, Manningham is their man here.

56. Green Bay - CB Brandon Flowers
- Flowers ran far too slow at the combine, but he’s exactly in the mold of Al Harris and gives them a nickel who can develop to replace one of their older CBs down the line.

57. Dolphins – RB Ray Rice
- Versatile guy, tough guy, Parcells guy. With Ronnie Brown recovering from his ACL, Rice provides durable insurance for the Dolphins.

58. Jaguars - WR/RS Eddie Royal
- They could use some speed at the WR spot and a returner wouldn’t hurt. Insert Eddie Royal, the darling of the senior bowl and combine.

59. Colts - LB/DE Darrell Robertson
- Some see him as a 3-4 backer, but the Colts see him as a pass rusher and are happy to grab him with their first selection of the draft.

60. Packers – LB Cliff Avril
- They don’t have any pressing needs and could go O-line here, but the best value is Avril at LB so they take him.

61. Cowboys - CB Charles Godfrey
- The boys add a CB to their pool of talent on the first day giving them flexibility in their secondary.

62. Patriots - DT Dre Moore
- The Pats go with a D-lineman, adding a DT who could play DE in a 3-4 and shoot the gap.

63. Giants – CB/RS Tracy Porter
- The Giants luck out as Porter slides. He helps them on defense and special teams from day one…adding speed in the return game and a potential starter at CB down the road.

To dream........the impossible dream.

FB not drafting at least one lineman in the first three rounds? Heresy. I think he'd rather be forced to have a 70/30 run/pass ratio.

Yeah...no shit.

I'm sure they have a few fat precious lined up in the 4th round.

On WIP, someone mentioned that Runyan's tailbone is still messed up and he has pain when sitting. Given the age of both tackles and the very real possibility that injuries could be a concern for both Thomas and Runyan, I am 99% positive that they will take an O-lineman in round 1.

If they trade lito for a second round pick, I could see them grabbing a safety or corner plus ANOTHER o-lineman in round 2 if a good one slides that far down.

Round 3 is prolly where they'll grab a "playmaker" for O--either another RB or WR. I actually saw a mock that had the Eagles taking Ray Diddy's sleeper (Jordy Nelson) out of K State in the 3rd.

They have several picks in round 4, so you gotta think that they will take a shot on some guys that might be considered "projects". I think that they could possibly get a guy like Justin King in the 4th. His cover skills arent great right now, but he has blazing speed and is a good kick returner. I would also expect them to grab an interior o-lineman in round 4 as well, since they might move Andrews to RT at some point. I'm thinking some no-named o-lineman outta Saginaw Valley state who is projected to go in round 6-7--the birds love to reach for these guys. I have also seen a few mock drafts where Tom Zbikowski from ND will be there in the 4th--he is an interesting prospect, but I suspect that his coverage skils are Consindine-esque.

Nova, I definitely agree the odds of them not taking an O-lineman high are slim.

It's all but a done deal (IMO) that its an OT- just whether its at 19 or higher that he's selected in Round 1.

The Jordy Nelson potential pick (saw R-Diddys take on the kid) and G-Cobb and "the source" had something on The Eagles' bein interested in Jordy before Ray wrote about him being a good fit possibly for the Birds.

I would not be surprised if they pull that trigger.

After all.....

"There's smoke"

Oh, about Runyan- I heard him say himself bitch about a) his tailbone tho not that he couldnt sit and b) biatchin about the Thursday game citing not enuff rest.

So, it this to say Winston Justics is already a write off in your (collective) minds?

The consensus is the coaches will move Andrews to RT when they move out Runyan. That leaves LT and the talk of drafting a tackle in the first kinda puts him on the outs.

Is one really, really bad game the end of that kid?

The most recent things I've read have all the elite tackle prospects gone by 15 and the Eagles might have to trade up to 11 to assure themselves of a LT prospect.

I just can't stress enough how foolish it would be to trade up in this draft. There are going to be guys through the second round who would have been first rounders in other years, so this is the year to stock up on high picks rather than consolidating them to move up.

Count me out for Jordy Nelson. No more WRs who could top out at average if they work out wonderfully, please.

I'll just state this plainly.

The Eagles have no business drafting a WR.

They've yet to develop a single WR, despite investing high draft picks in them. Reggie Brown is a marginal WR due to lack of development.

Import WRs, draft OL. They develop the heck out of OL and, to a degree, QBs.

I do not think they've given up on Justice.


FD- sorry, while I agree with you, you can just feel that they're goin to 'address' WR with an option that doesnt suit the true need (a giant red-zone target w. sure hands and SOME sorta YAC potential) and we're either goin to get some small school phenom, a smurf or a camp body in rd 5 or lower (wouldnt want Bill Sampy to go all "D-Nabb" after the draft this yr. Last yr was enuff!)

So, it this to say Winston Justics is already a write off in your (collective) minds?

The consensus is the coaches will move Andrews to RT when they move out Runyan. That leaves LT and the talk of drafting a tackle in the first kinda puts him on the outs.

Is one really, really bad game the end of that kid?

Might be. The problem with Justice is you don't know what you have until he plays and he can't play while Tra is here/healthy.

He had an awful game against the Giants, but he came in off the bench, cold, and they were using the silent count. All those things were new to him and it was a perfect storm.

You can't really bank on him being a good player now, but I don't know if you can write him off, either.

That's the problem with "drafting for the future". You still don't know what the fuck you have until the future gets here. If they take another LT this year, it'll just be another lineman they know absolutely nothing about until he enters a game.

I say take someone who can help you now and address the line with projects. Take 5 OTS on the second day for all I care. If you whiff on all 5 guys, fire Heckert and move on.

The Eagles have no business drafting a WR.

They've yet to develop a single WR, despite investing high draft picks in them. Reggie Brown is a marginal WR due to lack of development.

The problem is you have to draft a WR to get a good one. They don't become available in trade or FA unless they are complete disasters as human beings or constantly injured.

Even Roy Williams, a player who has been hurt and hasn't quite lived up to expectations, isn't being dealt in the final year of his deal when they have the best young WR prospect in the league opposite him, a guy who caught 120 balls a couple years ago on the bench, and needs at almost every other position.

Look at the top WRs in the league...they are either with the same team who draft them or have had insane drama surrounding them. Outside of Harrison/Wayne, they pretty much haven't won squat, either.

Its a matter that the Birds just stink at evaluatin that talent. Period.

I don't disagree, but drafting into a terrible system is just wasting whatever talent you get. It's like Penn State getting top QB talent and flushing it down the toilet year after year. Or the Cardinals and almost any position.

Maybe they should beat the bushes for college WR coaches who develop young talent into first round WRs.

Exactly. I think it's Reid. Really, I do.

The whole scouting staff has turned over and they still identify shitty WRs year after year. Similar size. Similar build. Similar relative lack of speed.

They like guys who are roughly 6 feet tall and don't do anything exceptionally well.

My last post was for Seth.

I don't disagree, but drafting into a terrible system is just wasting whatever talent you get. It's like Penn State getting top QB talent and flushing it down the toilet year after year. Or the Cardinals and almost any position.

Maybe they should beat the bushes for college WR coaches who develop young talent into first round WRs.

"It's the talent, stupid". That's my take.

LB was the other spot they traditionally sucked at evaluating and they didn't suddenly improve their coaching of the WRs...they lucked out with some talented players. Gaither stepped on the field and was just better. Gocong held his own even though he didn't know what he was doing. Bradley walked onto the field as a rookie and instantly made an impact.

If they draft the right WR, I think the same thing will happen. I really think they are just short on talent.

Fair enough.

I wanted to expand but had to close the browser very quickly.

I think they arent good, cos even tho its seemingly VERY hard to select a WR in college who translates his game to the pros- the law of averages states that they woulda hit by now.

And they haven't really. I believe in the strategy that you let someone else groom a guy, then pluck him (only WRs) when he's first a F.A.

This staff has no eye for what will make a successful pro.

Partly cos they seem to covet smaller guys and aren't hip to the way the game is nowadays and the value in a big guy (just look how poorly Basket was/is used---- and im not suggesting he's Plaxico, but come on- you dont know what he can really do, do you?)

Also due in part to the fact that I think Ried likes to dig in his heels and try to ram a point down the throats of media and fans.
The more we/they clamour for a WR- the more he's going to show you that you can have the #1 rated offense with whats currently in house (like 2006, without Curtis). Ugh.

They coulda been accused of this w/ LB, but they seem to have gotten this right FINALLy and I wont for a minute believe its not partially just a bit of Good Luck evenning things out after so many busts.

I dont think LB is as tough to translate into the pro game.

While Speed of the game in the pros is far dif., as noted, the CBs in the NFL are light years better/faster than those in colleges- even in the good programs.
Usually a WR who's new will fail because there's little technique or the perception that better technique is needed- as they've always been the best athlete and can outrun em, or out jump em, etc.

With LB, if you have a 'nose for the ball' and can hit, shed blocks- you're halfway home.

Technique in coverage is the No.1 thing worked on with LBs outta college- and depending on scheme/system and what LB spot you're playin, it may not even be all that important.

Easier to make teh adjustment you'd think, from college to the pros.

I guess this fact looks even worse for the Birds scouting dept., given that again- it was THEIR ideal that virtually NO OTEHR team subscribed to- the undersized, high motor type guy - that proved to fail them.

Thank god that they wised up here- and the only reason I think that philosophy shifted is due to Johnson, not Andy. Reid still runs the O and thats why the persistence where the WR position continues, much to our dismay.

I agree that they do not need to move up to get a tackle, but I do think that they will draft at least 2 o-lineman in the first 4 rounds.

I have written off Justice. You simply cannot get owned the way he did, period.

I know the Mel Kipers of the world think that all of the top OT will be gone by around 15, but I'm not so sure.

I think that Jake Long to Miami is a smokescreen--they are going to take a D-lineman--that is Parcell's M.O. Miami will grab Gholston, Chris Long or Dorsey if they keep the 1st pick--which I don't think is a lock. If Miami passes on Jake Long, he could fall as far as 5, which throws off most mock-draft scenarios.

Denver needs an OT and the kid Clady seems like a good fit b/c they used zone blocking schemes at Boise State.

The guard/ tackle from Virginia should be gone by 10, so that leaves Williams, Otah and Cherilus still on the board--all of whom have a 1st round grade.

I believe that they will take a WR, but I would be shocked if it was before the 3rd round.

Problem with Justice is the same problem with Hunt/Kolb/etc. They refuse to give either of them any playing time until they're forced to. I have no idea why any of these guys weren't playing the last game of the season last year. Absolutely mind boggling.

Everyone here's been ragging on Hunt, but the guy got NO TOUCHES last year. I don't see how anyone can evaluate someone without at least giving him a chance, and to evaluate Justice on the basis of one game where FB hung him out to dry is ludicrous.

The problem that we all keep coming back to is stubborn FB. Until he changes his mindset, or breaks his skull open slamming it into concrete, we will see the same modus operandi for drafting/player evaluation.

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