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There's a question-- who's the 2nd QB to go, Flacco, Henne or Brohm? I've seen all three projected to go ahead of the others depending on what you're reading..

Seth, I agree with everything you said but the points thing.

It always takes two to tango (which is the first and most critical step), but the points almost always line up. They definitely use the chart as a guide.

Look at the Eagles trade last year with the Cowboys as the most recent example. The 26th overall pick is worth 700 points and the package the Eagles received was worth 712 points...less than the value of #25 and more than the value of 27...right on 26.

If a team doesn't want to move down or that particular trade down doesn't net them what they need (for instance, if they think they'll be moving too far back in round 2 to get a player they really want) the points won't change their minds, but if they'd determined they want to move, the chart is definitely used as a guide.

There's a question-- who's the 2nd QB to go, Flacco, Henne or Brohm? I've seen all three projected to go ahead of the others depending on what you're reading..

As far as I can tell, Flacco has the most juice, but I think all 3 are valued equally. It will depend on which team makes the choice and which of the 3 they like best for their system.

I wouldn't be surprised to see any of those QBs taken ahead of another, but I like Brohm quite a bit.

A year ago, the kid would've been a sure 1st round pick and it's not like he had a bad year--he got screwed by Petrino going to Atlanta.

In the right system, Brohm could be a nice QB.

Flacco has a big arm--he is a boom/bust guy IMO. If he develops his game he seems to have all of the physical tools that good NFL QBs have.

Henne is probably a "safer" pick than Flacco. Good arm, 4 year starter who played against top competition are both big pluses in my estimation. I feel as if he gets lost at times during games--just a feeling that I have, can't really point to specifics. I don't see him ever being an elite QB, but I think that he could be a starter in the league if he is in the right situation.

It always takes two to tango (which is the first and most critical step), but the points almost always line up. They definitely use the chart as a guide. - FD

I acknowledge that teams use it as a guide, hence my comment about it being to late in the game to use the "new Coke" chart that at least the Eagles seem to be pushing for.

I think the old chart has 1 more final stand, in this draft.

I said its not a 'done deal' and its got more to do with just 1 team not wanting to deal with a particular franchise, screw over another team, or simply feeling safer to stand pat and select.

ANNNNYWay---

I absolutely feel that Flacco is the next guy off the board.
The buzz about his rising stock old news, he's still got a lot of what I think say, Gruden (Despite his cache of QBs) would love to have and work with while letting the unhappy Garcia man the reigns in 08, 09 perhaps.

I think he'll go at the end of rd 1 via a trade up by SOMEONE, not necessarily TB, or very early in rd.2.

There's something to be said for the systems, for sure- but i also think GMs are TERRIFIED to select QBs these days with the expectaions and the amount of flops (see 99- the "QB" draft that yielded only 1 true star QB). I think a lot of times that BUZZ will override a GM or Teams philosophy and the 'safer' choice is the pick made.

I know Flacco has been panned by some scouts for having terrible feet. I didnt think they were all that bad tho its never goin to be a part of his game. But I think he's more than a Bledsoe-esque statue back there.

I know GGB thinks Henne will be the better QB, I disagree.

Just an impromptu poll- not what youve read, what do you think>???
Better QB? Henne or Flacco?

-Flacco.

NOva- from a pedigree standpoint, I agree Henne is 'safer' in that regard.

Wanted to clarify that by 'safer' in my post above, I meant from a public perception standpoint and there's no denying that Flacco's got the buzz around him.

BTW- I like Mike Mayock, a lot, but his man crush on Ryan at this point is starting to scare me.
Anyone else?

"I meant from a public perception standpoint and there's no denying that Flacco's got the buzz around him."

-Homer.

Mayock's man-crush on Ryan is a little creepy--sort of like Madden's man crush on Favre.

I'll take the guy who wore the winged helmet.

Seriously... I'm biased badly, but I think the arm strength is about equal. I've heard all about Flacco's arm, but there isn't a throw on the field Henne can't make... His leadership/intelligence has been called into question at times... all the raving about his toughness in the Ohio State game was tempered by people calling him "selfish" for continuing to play at far leass than 100%. I'd probably take Chad on the "everybody improves when they get away from the coaching of Lloyd Carr/Mike DeBord" theory. I can't get away from the feeling that Flacco is just one of those guys the scouts fell in love with at the right time-- like that kid Giovanni Carmazzi from Hofstra a few years back.

Nova- real quick on the "Homer" thing....

I wouldnt say I HATE the UD Bluehens, but I'm no fan.
How's that?

No, if anything, knowing this kid was a PITT PANTHER and that Wanny royally jerked him around and then finally let him transfer, well it makes the whole Flacco experience somewhat of a bitter pill, when you consider the state of Panther Quarterbacking of late.

I just assumed that all people from "down under" were blue-hen fans--plus I know that you go to some of their games--but maybe that is just for the tailgate.

I knew the Flacco/'stache thing would get you.

I think the old chart has 1 more final stand, in this draft.

I agree completely. I didn't even bother to play with the new chart because it won't happen this year.

I can also completely see your scenario of the Eagles trying to force the issue of the new chart and getting left out in the cold.

The one good thing about the new chart is after the first 10- 15 picks, the values aren't that much different.

BTW- I like Mike Mayock, a lot, but his man crush on Ryan at this point is starting to scare me.
Anyone else?

I THINK Mayock is a BC alum, which explains some of it.

Yeah...just wiki'd it. Mayock played football at BC.

Nova- that chapps my ass like few other things in PITT sports. And ive long defended "The Stache".


FD- Yes, he's a BC Allum, and I honestly dont think thats it as much as it is his intent to diferentiate himself from Kiper Jr as the next big name. Kiper's had a monopoly on that for decades.

And with the new chart- yes, the 1st pick's just a 50 pt diferential from the old chart.

And after about halfway thru it does even out.

But did you notice the top pick in rd 2 are adjusted?

The thing that's a little dumb about the new chart is the large gap between pick 32 and the first pick of the second round.

In theory, under the next chart, it would take a low 3rd rounder or extremely high 4th to move from #33 overall to #32 overall, whereas the old chart simply had a natural slope down.

My only guess is they are trying to make sure the first round has more value because you can sign guys to 5 year deals and can only get a 4 banger done in the 2nd round, but it's a little odd.

I believe that's the thinking for structuring it that way. Thats the only thing thats making sense in my head anyway.

What about this:

- Trade 1st rder to Miami for Jason Taylor.
- Trade Lito for a top 10 2nd rounder and take WR Devin Thomas (probably not there) so either a CB (take your pick) or S Kenny Phillips
- Use 2.19 to take a WR (my preference is Malcolm Kelly...let him torch the Giants the way Plax fed us...)

"- Trade 1st rder to Miami for Jason Taylor."

Aw no he din't!

Canuck....


Are you honestly serious?

Jason Taylor MAY be worth a 5th rounder at this pt.

He's older than dirt, has little interest to remain in the NFL much longer it seems, and again- WHAT ARE YOU SMOKIN!?

I agree it's a little rich...ok...maybe a lot rich, but look at his stats...60+ tackles 10+ sacks for a number of years with the Dolphins no less.

He played all three downs in Miami, not something he'd have to do with us, but could if necessary.

He is old, but has 2 good years left and that fits with our timeline to get to the SuperBowl.

He's also an instant starter, I don't see drafting anyone with that first rd pick that is a lock to start...

If he could be had for less then great!

Miami wants a first round pick, but I think Parcell's is choking on a ham sandwich.

He is 34 I think--that gives him 2 years, tops.

No way on a 1st, but they might get a 2nd for him if someone is a DE away from a super bowl.

I was listening to the midday show today on 610 and Ike Reese was pimping 2 guys in particular: Devin Thomas and Kenny Phillips.

In terms of scenarios, if the Eagles wanted to get Thomas, they might have to trade up. I've seen alot of mocks that have him going 11 to Buffalo. If Lito is traded, they could parlay a 2nd plus their 1st to get ahead--if Thomas is a guy they love and their top choices for OL are gone. --Trading up to get him might be a risky proposition, but Mayock's take on this is that he will be an ideal WCO WR b/c he is a YAC guy, rather than a true deep threat. He also mentioned that most of Thomas' catches were on bubble screens and little underneath routes and speculated that it was due to Thomas' inability to properly run a route. The closer we get to the draft, the more intrigued I am by this guy--screams boom or bust.

If they can't move up, can't trade lito and their top O-lineman have been scooped up, Phillips seems like a logical choice--even though I think it is a stretch. He could play right away, is bigger than their existing safeties and is a big hitter. With Dawk coming off of a neck injury, having a physicial presence in the secondary might be nice.

I love all of the speculation--tomorrow should be fun.

Of all the draft parties we've had- I have YET to get THE guy I wanted.

Im more excited this yr that I may actually have that shot.

Phillips CAN hit, but he can actually COVER too. Thats the thing that makes me think all along that Philly wouldnt mind 'having to settle" on him at 19, if they cant move up (cos they're tryin to force their version of the chart down other GMs throats!)

You didn't want Bunkley or McDougle?

I thought those two were almost universally predicted/approved moves in the first round.

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