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Isn't it great?

How often does any team have "trouble" by having TOO MUCH TALENT at a position? And the guy (Lito) is pretty much playing it cool and not mouthing off to everyone that will listen.

Worst case is that he stays and plays as a solid nickel CB in a contract year. He leaves, they get a comp pick instead of yet another middle-tier #2-caliber WR or a high draft pick that won't be used on a WR.

I guess we're also pretending that the Eagles don't have a CB miss 4-8 games due to injury every single year.

What a problem to have. How terrible.

"I disagree with this. If you perform, there is precedent to pay you and incentive for the slackers to try harder. Reward performance"--Jules


There are performance clauses in the contract. It's not like Westbrook was a rookie when he signed this deal. There are performance based rewards in play here.

I honestly wish Banner would say nothing.

First off, would anyone here be disappointed with a mid-2nd round pick for Lito, considering how his trade value dropped?

"I'm not sure what Brian is talking about or if he knows what exactly has happened," Banner said. "I don't really agree that three guys of this caliber can't play together. There are certainly plenty of situations where three quality players at the same position have played together. Look at Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Donté Stallworth with the Patriots last year."

Hmm. What do all three of those players have in common? Let me think....could it be that they were brought in because the freakin' QB realized they needed WR help and the FO obliged and got him that help? How in the world could you site the Patriots WRs (knowing McNabb has been crowing for WR help) and not even think as to WHY they were brought in? They weren't brought in because the team was afraid Lito would be unhappy and they would trade him. And it's laughable they consider Dainty "quality" when they could've had him twice but declined.

Even beyond all that, Moss, Welker and Dainty knew their roles and they were all brought in at the same time, not as a possible replacement. That's a big difference, especially if one of those guys is making the kind of money you think you should be making.

And we won't go into the verbal smack of "I'm not sure he knows what happened".

Yeesh.

Moss, Welker and Stallorth.

Samuel, Brown, and Sheppard.

A high dollar free agent, a solid ham and egger with a workable contract and one guy out the door this year because of contract issues.

I see the comparison now.

Plus, none of them were asking for a trade because they didn't like their contract.

I think that's the key differentiating factor there.

Dawkins didn't say it can't be done...in fact, he said it COULD be done (just not under these circumstances).

Banner = Gold Standard of missing the point.

First off, would anyone here be disappointed with a mid-2nd round pick for Lito, considering how his trade value dropped?

Maybe.

A #2 pick gets you a chance at a decent nickel CB that probably won't see the field for at least a year, assuming he isn't a total bust.

If they are dead set on dealing Lito, I'd rather they package him with picks of their own and get a known talent in return.

I don't mind if he stays and just plays nickel. He'll be on the field a lot. Someone will get hurt. He needs to play well for his next contract.

He really has no leverage on this one. If there is no solid offer, the Eagles are better off with him still on the team for a final year.

Domo's column is suggesting that they get rid of Lito, agreeing with Dawk. He also mentioned that Sheldon Brown thinks he's underpaid.

If it's just Lito, then ok, but Brown too?

Banner shouldnt talk football, just nickels.

YOU DO NOT PLAY THREE CB'S AS ROUTINELY AS YOU LINE UP THREE WRS, for starters.

SECONDLY- WHO THE HELL WAS WES WELKER BEFORE LAST YR? Nice WR? Sure. A PRO BOWLER? NO.

DONTE STALLWORTH? How can Banner now use Stallworth as a chip to help him make a point, when refrencing guys with big talent all playin together- when HE DIDNT VALUE THE CAT ENUFF TO PAY HIM/RETAIN HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE!?
Cant have yo' cake and eat it to Joey>!
Not to mention- after news hit about his substance abuse program membership, Stallworth wasnt beating off suitors with a stick exactly.

Just a horrendous analogy from start to finish.

Agreed that it was a pretty dumb comment--thought the same thing when I read the article.

Having 3 high level corners is a luxury that most teams cannot afford.

I know Reid, et al like to mention Rod Hood and Al Harris as examples of their "3 starters" CB philosophy, but there are key differences between those situations and this one.

Hood was an undrafted RFA, Harris was a 5th round pick. Those guys weren't brought here to start--Sheppard was.

It is easy to see how someone would be pissed to have their job taken over by a FA, especially when said FA got the kind of coin that Lito wants. However, if Lito wasn't banged up so much, Samuel would not be here at all.

I am all for Big Red keeping Lito this year and having a "3 Starter" situation, but I agree with Dawk that the team didn't handle the situation well (a real surprise given this FO).

What confuses me about the whole situation with Lito is that he wants more $, but he missed about 1/4 of the season last year and was hurt the year before. While I disagree with giving Westbrook more $, I can at least see his point. Lito is just being plain dumb in this situation, but to his credit he hasn't been acting all T.O. either.

It probably makes the most sense to trade him, but if he stayed and was healthy, that secondary would be nasty.

that secondary would be nasty.

They had better be, if they entertain any thoughts of winning the division

what really confuses me is why Dawkins would name his twin girls Chonni and Cionni?!
linc

I am all for Big Red keeping Lito this year and having a "3 Starter" situation, but I agree with Dawk that the team didn't handle the situation well (a real surprise given this FO).

I'm curious how you would handle it, Nova, since it would necessitate restructuring his contract.

I would have addressed it by sitting Lito down before I brought in Samuel and telling him that they are trying to bring in as much talent as possible for the good of the team. I would have said that he will start at right corner back and if he stays healthy, plays a full season and doesn't make waves, then we could start talking about re-doing his deal.

I think that you have to be honest with these guys up front, let them know that player fits into the team and what the players' expectations are.

I'm not sure if that would work or not, but that is how I would have handled it.

Nova,

Isn't that essentially lying right to Lito's face that he'll be a starter? I don't understand what that gains you or how it smooths the situation.

I doubt even a sitdown with Lito could work. Although it's his fault that he signed the contract, he probably feels that there was some degree of misrepresentation from the front office, which is kinda why we're here in the first place.

By bringing in another corner, you've basically told him that you feel he's worth more than what you're paying him. It's all about business at this point, and although it'd be awesome to have an All-Madden secondary, it's probably not going to happen.

And while the FO can crow about not getting a suitable trade offer for Lito, you can't demand and receive a top pick, knowing that everyone sees his value, not to mention the reason why AS was brought in. I'd like for him to stay, but trading him looks to be the best option, especially if they re-do Westbrook's contract.

then we could start talking about re-doing his deal

Nova, that is the point you were arguing against - redoing contracts, but now you talk about it. Doesn't this set a precedent?

PS, I'd restructure his contract but make it incentive laden on INT's and games played and percent snaps played. That way, you can pay him even less if he doesn't live up to his end of it esp with missed games. Meaning, show us you ARE worth it. You aren't happy, fine. Sit his ass down, explain that he hasn't been on the field because his ankles are made of pre-cooked pasta and that his metrics of production are down. This encouraged the FO to make the move for Assante. Then say, you really don't like it and you think you're worth more put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise - go fuckyourself and play out the contract you signed.

Lito will be in camp- cue the media circus the EMB and Spuds want to deny will occur.



link

I'd offer a re-structure like you mentioned-
One that is based on performance, games played, etc--but only after he played a whole season.

As far as him being a starter--I don't think it would be a lie to tell him that he would start at right corner. I believe that when he is healthy, Lito brings more to the table than Sheldon. I think Brown is the "steadier" of the corners, but he has also played against teams 2nd WRs his whole career. Lito at least is a threat to score if he gets a pick.

Again, I'm not saying that this would work or could work. My point is that there are decent ways that teams can deal with situations like this and there are bad ways that teams can deal with this--there is no "good" option.

Troy Vincent Says Andy Reid Is Repeating Same Mistake
By Ashley Fox

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

There was tension, plenty of tension, the last time Andy Reid had a trio of Pro Bowl-caliber cornerbacks. Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor and the young Al Harris, all were talented players, but there were only two premier jobs available.
It wasn't that each player considered himself an every-down corner. Sure, ego played a big part. But from the players' perspective, what made the situation so difficult to navigate was that they didn't get any direct instruction from their head coach. Not a face-to-face word.

"We sat down like men and worked it out," Vincent said today. "No one pulled us in and said, 'This is what we'd like.' We always had to read about it in the paper. I think guys want to be treated like professionals. It's a lesson learned. It was tough."

The great communicator Reid isn't, but he has to do better this time around or else the cornerback situation with Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel will implode and ruin the Eagles' 2008 season before it ever begins. If you think off-season turmoil can't carry over to the regular-season, just look back to those educational T.O. days. It can, and if handled improperly, it will.

Here's what Reid should've done after signing Samuel to that monster contract in February and what he must do tomorrow when the Eagles' minicamp begins (if he doesn't do it tonight after the team convenes): Sit down with Sheppard, Brown and Samuel and honestly discuss how this three-man rotation of veteran corners is going to work. Explain his expectations to each player. Listen to their concerns and gripes. Don't be conflict averse. Communicate. It's not that hard.

If history is any indicator, Reid won't do that, and that would be a huge mistake.

If Reid really believes, as he said last weekend, that Sheppard is more valuable as a Eagle than as a trading chip, it's essential he defuse what has become a combative situation. Sheppard wants to restructure his contract. And he's also unhappy Reid so casually anointed Samuel the Eagles' starting left corner - the position Sheppard has held down for the last four seasons - in February. Brown doesn't like how his best friend on the team has been treated and isn't interested in moving to safety, as has been mentioned, to make room for Samuel and Sheppard to start.

Through no fault of his own, Samuel in a way enters the Eagles locker room as the villain rather than as a two-time Super Bowl champion who is supposed to make the defense better.

Sheppard and Brown are reasonable people. They are strong and opinionated, but they are not troublemakers. Yes, they want to make as much money as possible and should remember they signed early contract extensions for a reason, but they also want to win a title.

If Reid would talk to Sheppard, who's never played a full 16-game season because of injury problems, and Brown, they might not like what he had to say, but they would respect it. Neither player is going to go into the tank. But ignoring them is not a viable option, and both players carry significant sway in the locker room - not Brian Dawkins sway but pretty close.

As of lunchtime, Brown said Reid had not talked to him about the cornerback situation. Not a word. (Sheppard did not return a text message about the matter.)

Sound familiar? It did to Vincent.

"He's the head coach, so if he believes it works, it works," said Vincent, who was a Pro Bowl selection all five seasons he played for Reid. "We've had to learn a lesson because we've seen different results when we communicate the way we've communicated."

Last Sunday, Reid likened his cornerback quandary - my word, not his - to the days of Vincent, Taylor and Harris. "We just rotated all of them," Reid said, "and they were all starters in our eyes."

"The two situations are similar, but are very different," said Harris, who was a rookie in 1998 and played in every game, starting 14 times, in the four seasons he played for Reid. "All three of those guys have been starters now. I had never been a starter. ... We had somewhat of an understanding, me, Bobby and Troy. I knew I was the third corner. Did I think I could start? Yeah. Was I ready? Probably not. That's where our situation was different."

"There was a little friction," Vincent said, "because Al . . . felt he had worked his way to being a starter, and he has proven that throughout his career since he left. Because we were mature, we were able to talk about it, because we had to talk about it. No one talked about it for us ...

"It's easy now to make the comparison, 'Well, when we had Troy, Bobby and Al, we communicated well.' That came from within [the players], and we just did what we had to do."

There have been other times when Reid has failed to communicate with his players. Owens is one disastrous example. Last season, Donovan McNabb wondered about his future, because he said Reid hadn't talked to him about the addition of Kevin Kolb. Now this.

Bill Belichick is many things, but he communicates to his players, whether they want to hear it or not. Same with Bill Parcells.

Reid seems to cross his fingers and hope everything will be okay inside the locker room.

"Good managers and great coaches sit them down," Vincent said. "These are grown men, it's good to talk about it. You're a better football team with all three, but you're not a better football team with all three and one or two aren't happy with the situation.

"It's not about pampering," said Vincent, whose second term as NFL Players Association president came to an end earlier this year. "Guys want the truth. Speculation? It's tough to come to work under those conditions. You put a lot of people at risk, and I know that's not Jeffrey Lurie's intention or Joe Banner's intention. They're spending big money to build the franchise and win games, not to have guys constantly at odds with the head man.

"This is becoming repetitive."

So is the tension, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.

No surprises there. Reid is a social moron.

Social moron or social mormon?

As for the proposed treatment of Lito, I also disagree with the sentiment expressed earlier that he would be anointed the starter opposite Samuel. Brown is out and out a better cornerback. He's not as flashy, but he produces far more consistently. Remember, the Eagles don't rotate their corners. One plays RCB, the other LCB, and the nickel plays the slot, no matter where the wideouts line up. That's why you saw Hoselio Hanson covering TO during several boys' games. If he's the nickel, he'll cover the slot, period.

This is why FB needs to go. He refuses to talk to absolutely anyone. Just holes up in his office and thinks everything will work itself out. Worse than pointed haired Dilbert boss. He's running this franchise into the ground. Same approach was taken with his kids, and look how well that's turned out. What a dip.

The fat man talked to Lito- the conversation, per Lito on the EMB (Video clip) will stay private. He wouldnt answer if he thinks he will still be traded, says that the talk musta gone good enuff(in response to a question) or he wouldnt be there, and that he thinks it 'could' work out and they're goin to work towards that.

He says like we all surmised that he is the least controversial player in the world and will not cause any trouble.

Lito is the man. Met him a couple months ago at lucky strikes.


By far the most approachable player I have ever met (next to the big kid). Glad to see him in camp.

With Boldin saying he doesnt want to be traded, the best thing for the 2008 eagles is to haVE LITO

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