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it's really easy for me to root against him.

How so? I think this whole thing is hilarious because there is no way it can last, but he is the most hated on player in the league right now and it's not close. Every time he wins, it makes the haters even more furious, which adds to the enjoyment of his success.

I do not know why God has chosen him, but that team is complete dog shit and they are looking like the division winner now, barring collapse.

And I understand the defense is playing better, the kicker is great, their running game is working, etc. but that team was 1-4 before he took over and 7-1 since. The only change they made was trading their best player on offense and starting Tebow. It's outstanding.

How so?

i'm a jerk.

but that team is complete dog shit

Disagree 100%. When they've won, the defense has been huge. Since the reign of Tebow began, the Broncos have let up more than 25 points twice, against Detroit (who was running full tilt at the time) and at Minnesota. 4 of his 8 games at the helm, the defense held teams to 15 or fewer points.

You don't do that defensively if your team is dogshit. Part may be clock management with a ground game that kills TOP and limits the number of offensive plays, but if you look at most of the great defenses in NFL history most of them had dominating ground games that would suck up TOP.

It doesn't hurt that they've been lucky with long FG's, last chances and other plays that defy chance. All I know is if Tebow would stand next to me at a roulette wheel I'd know I'd win (not that he would, as gambling is the Devil).

You hit on one of the issues (TOP), but do you find it at all interesting that their defense and Willis McGahee suddenly became good the moment Tebow took over and not one second earlier?

You know, I'm not a big fan of people throwing their religion in other people's faces. Sure, they have a *right* to express their opinion, and I have a right to dislike it. I don't think it's much of a shock that many dislike Tebow because of his invoking God and Jesus Christ at every turn, or so say the legion of haters on Facebook.

That said, without people bitching in public forums, I wouldn't know much about Tebow's religion, aside from the shots of him praying. I didn't follow him in college football, and I never listen to any of his interviews. (If I want to hear someone say something intelligent, that someone is not going to be a professional athlete.) By and large, this removes the great holy aura away from the way I view him.

All I see is the stuff he does on the field, and in truth, for the past couple of weeks, I've learned to not pay much attention to his game until their are five or so minutes remaining. That's when he becomes inexplicably possessed and starts making play-after-play. Yesterday, just like the week before and the week before that and the week before that, he was not very good but then he suddenly went 9-for-9 when it counted and led his team to victory.

His own general manager desperately wants him to fail, so it's easy to root for this guy. He is a major underdog who keeps delivering. And it must be incredible to play alongside a guy who is not only brimming with confidence but now has a crazy track record to back it up. Denver players must walk on the field with two minutes left knowing that they will win. Matt Prater must believe he can kick it from 75 or 80 yards now.

You hit on one of the issues (TOP), but do you find it at all interesting that their defense and Willis McGahee suddenly became good the moment Tebow took over and not one second earlier?

Confidence.

Pass it on.

BTW, Kansas City just fired Todd Haley.

The timing here strikes me as a little strange.

In his second season, he wins the division and gets them into the playoffs. In his third season, they start slow, but then he gets them on an impressive roll with some big wins before losing their starting QB for the year. Then they begin to suck, so now you fire him?

I think there's something more to this. Obviously, he's an abrasive guy, so he may have rubbed someone the wrong way.

The timing here strikes me as a little strange.

I agree. Given what they accomplished last year and the injuries he had to deal with this year, you would think he'd get a pass. He definitely strikes me as a guy who might rub people the wrong way.

His own general manager desperately wants him to fail, so it's easy to root for this guy. He is a major underdog who keeps delivering. And it must be incredible to play alongside a guy who is not only brimming with confidence but now has a crazy track record to back it up. Denver players must walk on the field with two minutes left knowing that they will win. Matt Prater must believe he can kick it from 75 or 80 yards now.

It's like they're redoing "Major League". Players themselves have said "if it's close in the 4th quarter, we know we're going to win", which, like you said, is a huge boost. Unlike the Eagles, who have said they tighten up when the game gets close.

And I don't get the Haley firing, because just a couple of weeks ago they were still somewhat in the race, even after they lost their major offensive weapon early in the season, and their average, yet starting, QB.

They had the worst luck of any team in the league. They don't have many good player right now because they are still building. In week 1, they lose Eric Berry to a blown knee. In week two they lose Jamal Charles. Then they lose their starting QB.

When a building team loses the focal point of their defense week one, focal point of their offense week 2, it's hard to overcome.

Not to mention Bowe alligator-arm'ing a pass against the Pittsburgh game that ended their chances of winning

Totally separate from the religion angle is that Tebow was a highly prolific college "system" QB--the exact type that ESPN talking heads have railed against for years... "that crap will never work in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE..." and he's succeeding without really changing much of anything about his game.

One thing I like about college football as opposed to the NFL is the variety of offenses, and therefore QBs, that can succeed. John Elway was a great college QB... so was Tommie Frazier. Carson Palmer won the Heisman Trophy... so did Eric Crouch.

Seeing Tebow gives me a ray of hope that in two years, Denard Robinson won't just be turned into the greatest-ever version of Antwan Randle-El. He might enjoy a period of success by dropping back, not knowing what to do, and just saying "ah, fuck it" and running for his life 8-10 times a game. Better yet, some coach may actually have the foresight to install a couple of specific packages that could take advantage of the skill set of an "unconventional" QB.

I totally agree, ENY. I do not think Tebow will last until he can learn to play an NFL offense because they need to score more points to win consistently, but I hope his success this year helps the NFL grow some balls.

Tom Brady is great. Let Tom Brady run an "NFL Offense". If you get your hands on a special player who can run a non-traditional offense, though, have some balls and run that offense.

It's hilarious that people are legitimately angry at Tebow's success

It is NEAG and I'm kinda looking at this upcoming week against the Pats as the true test of Tebow's mystique. If they can beat NE at home, shit I'll probably start pulling for the guy too.

Regarding Todd Haley, he's been losing it for a bit. One of the early games broadcast was the curbing of the Chiefs by the Jets which included a 15 yard penalty against Haley for something that wasn't really reviewed by the broadcasters (probably because they didn't want to bring attention to it). That drive had a penalty on just about every play the Jets were running to the point I was ready to look up the Raiders media guide online to see what was the record for most penalties on a single offensive drive.

Haley didn't just not get his players in position to win, he also cost them 15 yards on a drive that his team was clearly loosing focus. I kinda hate him a bit because after seeing him yesterday on the sidelines I was kinda happy the Eagles have Reid. What an asshole.

If they can beat NE at home, shit I'll probably start pulling for the guy too.

I've heard this sentiment a lot over the last 24 hours or so and don't get it. The Patriots have kind of a weird (and not in a good way) defense coupled with an amazing offense.

It wouldn't surprise me if Tebow had his best game of the season next week and the Broncos lose by 3 scores, so I don't see this game as much of a measuring stick.

I remember one scout's take on Tebow was something along the lines of "Don't draft this guy unless you plan on designing an offense specifically for him."

Denver's hand may have been forced in the matter, but that's exactly what they have done.

This is all premature, but I've some variant of this argument a lot, too:

"How can you even build around Tebow? The offense has to be built specifically for him, so you'd have to completely switch offenses if he needs to be replaced or gets hurt"

Granted, it would take huge, huge balls, but what if Denver just committed, all the way. College football is full of athletic QBs who never make it in the NFL because they are only good at running Tebow's offense. You could basically have your pick of those guys and make them your backups. This could be your system.

I know it's not ideal, but if they think he can continue improving in the passing game to the point were he's decent, he doesn't have to become Tom Brady. It may fail miserably, but it would be a hell of an experiment.

FD I get your vibe on it but the biggest crash they've had so far was against a Lions offense that was abusing teams at the time. This is truly the test. If the Tebow style of play can beat up a Pats team that has been a winning standard in the NFL for a decade, then he and his team are for real.

The thing I don't get is the people saying that other players on the team are shadowed by Tebow somehow. It's not like some private under George Patton's command was responsible for some victory in Italy, you remember Patton, not the men under him. Same with Tebow, it's his team, if someone under his command kicks a 70 yard field goal, it's because of Tebow.

On building a team around him, you need fast WR's that can spread the defense, you need physical and mobile linemen and backs that are used to running options where they may or may not be getting the ball.

Defensively they just need to be good. I can see them drafting 7 guys on defense and 'praying' for offensive miracles to replicate what they have right now, but offensively they could probably use a disgruntled WR from Philly.

I've had some "hypothetical" arguments with people who say Denard Robinson cannot succeed as an NFL QB. Their points always focus on:

-height. He's 5-11 at best, which is a concern, but defensive linemen don't grow six inches between college and the pros. Drew Brees is 6-foot even, and Montana was probably shorter. There are other, less extreme examples too.

-downfield accuracy. A legitimate concern that I completely agree with--Robinson needs to improve this area of his game.

But the #1 point I always hear is "it (I assume this means spread option-type concepts) just won't work against NFL defenses."

When I point out that they've worked against Florida, Alabama, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State... places that produce a high number of NFL defensive players... I tend to get an answer that says something like no matter how good a college defense is, it has SOME glaring weakness that these types of players can exploit--and that isn't true in the NFL. I think anyone who's watched the Eagles this year knows this is crap.

If you did as F-D said and backed up a Robinson with 2-3 other "dual-threat" QBs, compensating for the increase in injuries to the QB that you would likely see... I mean, can someone tell me why this absolutely wouldn't work? People like Rex Grossman, Tyler Palko and John Skilton are starting in the NFL. Tonight, I may watch a Monday Night Football game between Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens. Really, this isn't at least worth a shot??

Vick isn't 6' himself and look how he's matured into a weapon (when healthy, with an OLine etc).

Few points I would like to make that I'd made previously.

Regarding the Tebow issue, the topic was something I commented on a long time ago, but basically, why do people draft athletic QB's and try to remake them into classic pocket passers? I understand they like the escapability factor, but that athleticism and extending plays often involves a fundamentally different skill set that is instinctive and not taught. I think the same could be said of the pocket passer. He has the anticipation to throw to windows where the WR will be.

Basically, it will be rare to find someone who is good at both, but you can find people who are better at one or the other more commonly. The only people I can think of are Cunningham, but he was more like 60/40 athlete/pocket passer and probably, Vick 70/30 and Cam newton closer to 50/50. Young, Elway, Tarkenton, etc were more mobile pocket passers than true scramblers.

Anyway, the concern for success with such QB's in the NFL is that the speed of defenses is far different than college and they can close lanes on the "athletic" QB far faster compromising his ability to play.

It would be interesting to see people go all out rather than shoe-horn these guys into positions they aren't molded to play in most cases.

Now, Tebow's success I believe is in part related to the typical position that teams that are winning by small margins take to kill clock. If you look at Tebow's last game, he was playing against prevent and they were giving him the middle of the field. Had Chicago stuck with a conventional defense (instead of fearing giving up a big play), that game (and others) may very well have turned out differently. Then, for the kicker to make two 50+ yard FG in the same game for all the marbles? That is very fortunate. I'm not sold, but I'm actually rooting for the guy since he's got a good attitude and seems like a genuine guy even if you don't care for his Flanders-like outlook on life.

As for TOP, shoot, I've been screaming about this for years. The Birds specifically have opted for a fast defense over a physical one. Fine. But, when you are 3 and out and passing mostly, that defense will get worn down as games and moreso as the season goes on.

Finally, while I have no objective proof he's a dick, I got the impression Haley is one because of his treatment of Boldin in more than a few games. Boldin is the antithesis of DeSean in that he played with a shitty contract for years while Fitz got paid BEFORE Boldin did (despite putting up great numbers before and after Fitz and with a broken jaw). It was those few occasions of negative exchanges between Haley and Boldin that told me Haley's probably an a-hole. Maybe that is what did him in.

If his boss called him in and said, "Todd, what's going on?"

He probably responded by telling him he was an asshole and that if he didn't like the job he was doing that he could coach himself if he thought he could do better.

I was just thinking about this last night, but Tim Tebow should also get some credit for the success of the Packers.

The volume of the debate over his 4th quarter comebacks and criticisms have kind of taken the media attention away from the Packers, which I'm sure they appreciate.

They are an awfully quiet 13-0 with only one seemingly challenging game left in the regular season.

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