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Bass, my point is that Ryan has had such a positive impact on his plyaers, regardless of his impact on the existing players, there is no reason to think he couldn't replicate that loyalty with the incoming players. He doesn't even need those locker room leaders cuz HE is the alpha dog.

I mean, without knowing anything about Reid or Ryan, I can see how differently players respond to playing for both and what lengths they'll go through for each respectively. I have no doubt how most of US would respond to them.

but he hasn't been a source of never-ending bad headlines.

ummm- yes he has.

What, Big Ben has three incidents?


Santonio has got that beat.


Maybe you are forgetting that Holmes' johnson was all over the webz? Or that he was busted several times for hits from the bong? How about the nightclub incident, where he threw a drink at ho? Got sued for that one.

It's obvious that (for a 5th rounder) this was a "cut bait and move on" move

That was my ultimately my point, Jules - his impact will get incoming players to toe the line, aided by people who are already doing the job.

Flesh, I don't mean vet leadership - I meant what Sheldon Brown mentioned earlier, about having guys you can come to that have been in the league that can show you a thing or two the coaches probably couldn't.

Maybe you are forgetting that Holmes' johnson was all over the webz? Or that he was busted several times for hits from the bong? How about the nightclub incident, where he threw a drink at ho? Got sued for that one.

It's obvious that (for a 5th rounder) this was a "cut bait and move on" move

I don't know anything about his johnson, but I just remember him having some sort of weed incident in 2008. They seemed to move on from that and the next incident(s) were recent.

I could easily be wrong, but I don't remember him being a big problem for any reason.

Pacman type of problem? No, he wasn't like that. TO problem? I don't recall him being vocal.

That he's been in the news for screwing up? Yeah, I've heard his name a few times, so he's had problems. A larger one more recently, that probably got out of hand. Or maybe it's them trying to move on from him to open it up for a younger player?

Or maybe it's them trying to move on from him to open it up for a younger player?

I think it was definitely them saying he's either not worth the trouble or sending a message to the rest of the team, because Holmes is a good player and just entering his prime.

However, they might not have been quite so willing to dump him if not for the emergence of Mike Wallace last year.

I'm just saying that Pitt is known for being a team that dumps on players as they get old, with a few exceptions (Bettis, Ward, etc), so I can see them trying to move him earlier than they would because of the drama in the news.

Word is is the Steelers/Rooneys are fed up with all the bad press, I'm sure you've all heard the outcome of Big Ben's incident, but even though he won't be charged some of the local newscasts used words like "disgusted" and "furious" to describe fan reaction to Ben's conduct. The Holmes' trade was apparently fall out from that, as some put it, he was "not worth the trouble", and the Steelers are using his dismissal as somewhat of a "message of intolerance" to such behavior unbecoming of a Steeler.

As a matter of fact, I just heard on KDKA five minutes ago that the Steelers were actually prepared to release Holmes without compensation, but got a last minutes offer from the Jets. So they obviously want to take some type of stand to make an example of what they clearly view as misconduct.

Incidently, THREE STEELERS made news today as a result of some brush with the law. Jeff Reed also had charges pending (for public intoxication, I believe) and those charges were also dismissed today.

I can't recall the specifics, but at least 4 separate incidents involving Holmes over the past couple of years were discussed, including a 4 game suspension for substance abuse which will be effective at the beginning of the 2010 season. Most recently, there is an assault charge pending that alleges he threw a drink and/or glass at a female in a bar, causing a facial injury (which he has denied, and sources have since come forth stating that it was not Holmes, but actually a friend who instead came to Holmes' defense by tossing a drink with ice at some chick who was harassing Holmes).

Since the Steelers couldn't find it feasible to get rid of Ben, they are making a statement of sorts by dumping Holmes. That is the most common assessment of the situation overall I have heard on local news as well as national coverage.

People here are ticked. I actually witnessed a women flipping out at work today - she was really pissed that Ben didn't get charged with something as we watched the news conference unfold. She clearly viewed him guilty and was very vocal about it. I had to bite my tongue, not so much to defend Ben but to reiterate the "he said/she said" and lack of evidence.

Just my two cents, from this end of the state.

Ben's goin to either face a suspesnsion of at least 2 games id think , for violation of the conduct policy, or Goodell's goin to be seen as playin favorites among a large % of the league's players for

a) Quarterbacks
b) Players who come from teams that feature Gold in their uniforms
c) White players who get into trouble

Ben is getting off because when he "got off" and shot his load, his load was not enough to go to trial. I am sure his teammates will have fun with this.

And by the way, in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it took 13 articles about the Steelers before you found one without criminal activity or bad behavior.

Slap,

Just saw this on PFT...

You had to figure there's more than just the 2 such incidents we know about, with this meathead...
He is VERY Lucky and if it ever happens again, I agree with the attorney quoted below that he will be DONE.

From PFT:

BOSTON ATTORNEY SAYS HE INVESTIGATED ANOTHER BIG BEN INCIDENT.

So with the possibility of a Georgia prosecution official gone and only a civil lawsuit in Nevada remaining, Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger can exhale and focus only on playing football and not barhopping, right?

Maybe not.

Boston lawyer Harry Manion told WEEI's Dennis & Callahan Show on Tuesday that Manion was involved in an investigation regarding another Big Ben incident.

Said Manion: "[T]here is a history here this is just super troubling."

Manion specifically referred to an incident from 2009, also in Nevada. "Six months ago I was retained by a client of mine and a close friend to investigate allegations against Ben Roethlisberger in a Las Vegas nightclub that were absolutely identical to this Georgia girl's story," Manion said.

Manion believes that, if Roethlisberger ever is going to change his ways, the near miss in Georgia will be the impetus.

"Unless he's totally brain dead -- and we don't know -- he would be scared," Manion said. "Because he has really walked a perilous line here. There's a whole litany here, not only my experience, I have connected with several other people that have experience. And you know, there's only so far that he said/she said will get you. There's only so far that paying hush money will get you, if hush money is paid. And there's only so far that, 'Gee, we're celebrities, we have a target on our back,' will get you. When you see this much smoke, month after month and continuously . . . . It's the scene that he's gotten himself caught up with, and the belief that he can walk, and so far, so good. But it's hurting him. He's hurt. He has been damaged. And the next one, the wrath of God's going to come down on him, if there is a next one."

For the record, I was not defending him at all. He is a classless jerk. He will probably follow the South Park episode precisely and go to rehab to learn how not to get caught.

There's a joke here about Pittsburgh women that I won't touch.

A general question to ask is - does Big Ben wear a helmet now? I know it's kinda away from the topic, but if nearly becoming street pizza hasn't changed his methods, a near miss of this magnitude might not do it.

Of course, it shows a perilous standard that Holmes can be traded for his infractions, but the team and the locals do their best to cover up Ben's.

God smiles on QBs not being investigated as part of a federal dog fighting and gambling ring.

At least Tiger got consent before screwing half of America.

Everyone seems worried about all the raping Ben has been doing, but has anyone taken a good look at him lately? He probably ate TWO college co-eds whole for each one he raped over the last couple years.

Rumors are he gets 2-4 games.

Hed better get at LEAST 2 games or I'll beat FB to the "Inequitable/Special Treatment" posts.

See, the one big problem I have with the situation with Ben is yes, he did some bad things, but he hasn't been arrested or convicted of a crime. Should the NFL uphold players to a higher standard? Sure, but at what point do they start suspending people for assumptions?

Sure, Ben is a huge dude that picked up some chick in a bar. She was probably drunk and/or blacked out at the time. She was probably revolted by what happened the next day and this became a big deal.

However, where does the line end? Say Payton Manning shows up at a stake house in Louisiana and some woman claims he cornered her in the bathroom. No cameras or evidence support it, but it creates bad press. Does he get suspended? Or does the league wait for a second 'claim' to pop up before they suspend him for two games?

I'm not comparing Manning's nightlife to Ben's. We all know the dude's a bonehead. The problem is at what point do they determine the line for moral and fair judgement on professional atheletes?

As far as Holmes goes, it's a different story. He's failed three (3) drug tests. There is proof of this, and it's against the rules of the league for him to do so. It's written that if you abuse the policy that often, you get suspended for 4 games. A fourth infraction is a year suspension.

This is Ben's second headline, with no real case being brought up on him for it. There's no rule in the books saying they can't fool around with women, and there is no proof, legal or otherwise, that says anything else happened. All we have is media speculation. So at what point does the Media start controlling who gets suspended and who gets to play?

Lyte, the media that brought up these allegations are the same media that has swept under the carpet some of his other dealings. WHat if we actually asked the media to do its job and report on the RAMPANT drug use in NFL locker rooms? They do far more to cover things up and make the NFL look good than to report the sordid side of it all.

It's naive to think SOMETHING didn't happen, but the NFL doesn't have to wait for the law to make a decision. Part of Goddell's iron fist is to come down hard on issues like these where the NFL looks bad.

You bring up Peyton Manning, but he's reportedly a swinger and you'd think that he conducts his business is a discreet manner. Eli Manning goes up to women and asks them to go down on him. Both cases are morally wrong, but they're different from Ben's issue. The fact that Ben has a history of these cases and isn't discreet about them means either he doesn't get it, or doesn't care. And he's making the NFL look bad.

I don't advocate ANY of this behavior, but let's be real.

Sure, Ben is a huge dude that picked up some chick in a bar. She was probably drunk and/or blacked out at the time. She was probably revolted by what happened the next day and this became a big deal.

lyte, with all due, you are totally missing the point here, and for someone complaining about the danger of speculation, you are sure doing a lot of it yourself. let me help you out with some facts that are not in dispute - he did not "pick up some drunk woman at a bar" who "was revolted by what she did the next day". she was underaged, he was shitfaced and plied her and her friends with alcohol, then followed her to the bathroom. at some point, his bodyguards were forced to intervene. these are facts.

the fact that he has not been convicted on either of the sexual assualt charges does not mean he didn't do anything wrong. he wasn't framed, this isn't a conspiracy of sluts trying to get rich. what is it is is an absolute pattern of completely unnacceptable behavior for a high-profile professional athlete - the nfl, and/or the steelers, are nothing less than duty-bound to severely discipline this bloated greaseball - as would any employer who was aware of these actions by an employee, conviction or not.

All we have is media speculation.

we most certainly have more than that.

I DID not see the POV of the waitress from Vegas other than a shameless attempt at easy cash, but this fool wrecked his motorcycle (drunk), had a negative encounter with an underage girl. The DA from Ga basically found his actions reprehensible and immoral but not criminal.

Considering the Rooney's are focused on character (even if Ward is a slimeball) and the NFL has a conduct policy, he ought to get punked for being a jackass.

Speculation aside, we now have a pattern of behavior of someone who at the VERY LEAST puts himself in bad situations. The black players will definitely (and rightfully) take issue if there is favoritism or leniency extended Big Butthead.

My point is I thought we lived in a country where a person was innocent until proven guilty, not innocent until accused. Sure, you have media relayed facts. Sure, the guy probably is a scumbag. But if he hasn't done anything illegal, we're getting into something completely different.

Sure, the media can cover up stuff if it won't get them ratings. However, they will be the first to crucify someone when they smell blood. Take Woods for example. Sure, he cheated on his wife. A lot. In insanely stupid situations. Should he be banned? Suspended? What he did was immoral too. Neither of them have been convicted of a crime, and while the legal system may not be perfect, if the players haven't committed something against the rules or the law, they shouldn't be suspended because of suspicious activity.

if there is favoritism or leniency extended Big Butthead.

Compared to what? Ben didn't fail 3 drug tests. If he did, sure suspend him. Otherwise you're dealing with apples and oranges, unless they're going to put in the rules a person could be suspended for being accused of crimes.

Hell, if that were the case the NY media would crucify Brady on a regular basis.

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